That’s another lore aspect that makes this whole crafting system silly. In the Warhammer lore, technology is very valuable, you have entire groups that are fanatical over preserving this stuff. I read somewhere on how when a Space Marine gets his power sword there’s a whole ritual and ceremony that has to be undergone for the weapon before the Space Marine can wield it.
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This is a problem I think stems from the narrative being unable to decide if we are penal conscripts or Inquisitorial Acolytes.
If we were on the level of the last chancers, and the beat stuff we got was lasguns, than maybe it would make more sense. Never graduate to a “member of the Inquisiton,” as Rannick puts it. The crafting still wouldn’t be fun, but it would make more narrative sense that we are getting the detrius from the battlefield that no one else would use, and as the truly expendable scum of the Imperium.
If we are Acolytes, why the hell are we stuck using left over junk that’s barely functional? What Explicator would send one of their best operatives into a mission with a stub revolver and a knife? Before the fact that the cylinder on the revolver might not work correctly and the knife might be bent out of shape?
This is something that will differ from chapter to chapter. However as a base rule, most SPM do seem to view their weapons in a sort of sacred position. To many, the boltgun, the basic weapon of both the Soriritas and the Space Marines, is considered a holy symbol of both the Imperium and the Emperor, and there are Mechanicus roles dedicated to sanctifing and appeasing the machine spirits of these weapons.
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Agreed, and that would be like the argument that talks about sissies real life/lore for the sake of gameplay
I don’t really get what you are saying here, could you clarify?
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There comes a point in any game where Lore/real life must be sacrificed at the cost of gameplay.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense.
What?
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…Phage, you just said it was fine because you could come up with a lore reason, now you’re circling around to saying that the lore doesn’t matter because of gameplay?
Yeah, okay. This has convinced me you’re a troll. That or you’re so ridiculously committed to ignoring reality that you’re indistinguishable from one.
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Sorry, not wearing glasses today and am wearing an eye patch to boot.
Replace sissies with sacrifice
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Dude nothing is binary. Meaning, you can’t take an absolutionist stance on every approach. That sets you up to fail. Putting everything in a box or absolutionist thinking will lead to cognitive rigidity and even cognitive dissonance.
What do you think about this:
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DO you want me to attempt to justify it? If so is your goal to debunk justification? I mean all i have is theories why certain decisions were made. I don’t have the answers. No one does. Rather than be frustrated with the lack of answers icreate my own so it can make sense
To preface the response i have a couple plausible theories.
I want you to give me your opinion on this point that dragon brought up in regards to lore - this is a discussion forum, we discuss things.
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This is what it circles back to imo. I guess this is a subjective argument, but it goes too far for me. Like I mentioned in my other reply, if we were a true penal legion than I could 100% understand the crafting system from a narrative perspective, if not a mechanical one.
But there are too many, large holes that make it very hard for me to keep that narrative going in my head. If the story my gameplay is telling is that I am a somewhat elite specialist with access to very rare and powerful weaponry, but the crafting system is telling me that I’m sifting through garbage to find something that works, there is a large disconnect in themes.
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No problem just a sec.
Theory #1 (not in order of probability)
FS didn’t understand and dthe 40k lore as well as vt2 lore and opened pandoras box; unable to turn back.
Theory #2
Fulfilling player power fantasy by adding this weapon to the game
Theory #3
They needed a weapon that would satisfy function and wanted to use what closely resembled what that function described.
Or some combination thereof.
I don’t think it was added with the intent to make people angry or to sabotage the lore
I do want to say, for this example the Boltgun is probably a bad weapon to choose. When I mentioned the roles that lower Tech Priests have to care for these weapons, I was specifically referring to those used by the Soriritas and the Space Marines. While Guard Regiments do have attached Enginseers, who would try their best to keep those weapons appeased, the reality is that they wouldn’t receive nearly as much attention compared to those in more elite positions.
However, the Powered melee weapons, (especailly the Thunder Hammer), the Plasma Gun, maybe the Twin Linked Stubber, would receive that sort of treatment.
Force Weapons would also need a high level of care, although it would be different from that of other weapons due to their inherent nature.
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Even then why pay prisoners at all and allow them to buy hundreds of weapons? Where they sit on a shelf doing nothing while they only use a few? And why do they only know the stats AFTER they buy them? Doesn’t even make sense for glorified cannon fodder
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It goes from bad to worse.
Why would anyone “sacrifice” anything at the “cost of game play?”
Why make a game worse, then sacrifice lore/RL to achieve this? It’s fundamentally stupid.
And even if it is type O, your argument still makes no sense, as the all crafting system has done is push the vast majority of players away from the game. So why destroy the lore/RL that does nothing but make the experience for players so bad that most have left the game? As they are sick to death of being spat in the face by something that should be “fun.” It’s not “gameplay” it’s punishment and an insult.
So “you” like it, so what? As with most things in life, there is always an outlier that is at odds with the vast majority of the rest.
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Fair enough. I don’t really know much about Warhammer. My expertise is mainly Dungeons and Dragons.
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That is something that I would be fine to push aside for narrative dissadence. Having to pay for weapons at all doesn’t make sense in the majority of games, but it’s a form of progression.
For example, let’s say the updating crafting system is perfect, but you still buy base grey weapons from Brunts. This still makes zero sense, but is something I’m fine with existing.
I understand. It’s labyrinthine at the best of times, and outright contradictory and nonsensical at the worst.
However in general I think your point still stands as a good example of the narrative disconnect the various systems in DT have.
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I agree. It’s a “gamey” system. You have to suspend disbelief. It’s obviously just there as a form of game “progression” like XP. Does it make sense I learned how to turn invisible by killing a lot? Or that my gun has a blessing attached to it that suddenly changes the bullets to sometimes refund back into my clip? No. You have to suspend disbelief. Which is fine.
But that’s why arguments trying to justify the systems due to lore, or that they can’t make the systems more player friendly with less RNG due to lore… Is just really out of touch with the situation.
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