In my entire lifetime of gaming… I have reviewed two games… TWICE in 30 years! And they’ve both been games in the last 5 years (Darktide is one of them)… Baldur’s Gate 3 was the other.
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Fully agree on the lack of tutorials. Even something like dodge sliding. I had to teach all my friends how to do it when I learned about it. I came from VT2 and didn’t even think to try that.
I honestly feel “situation” based tutorials and challenges in the meat grinder would help with this.
“Dodge the trappers net 3 times”
“Push a leaping pox hound”
“You can only look forward. Dodge when you hear the ‘backstab’ sound”
“You’re out of ammo and have to fight a Rager, bulwark, some Pox walkers, and there’s a sniper on the other end of the room. Complete with this setup and without taking damage.”
Advanced tutorials that you have that go over all the enemy types and armour types (people don’t know maulers have carapace on their heads and flak everywhere else).
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I agree I think those would be great, but I specifically wanted to focus on the general melee combat, how combos work, pushing, ap values, and dodging. Since this was something I struggled with for 2 games, and as I mentioned earlier made me quit VT 2 earlier than that game deserved.
But yes, I think both advanced tutorials and a codex would be great. Not even a codex discussing enemies but just discussing concepts in general. Rending, brttileness, finesse, crits, cleave, power, etc etc.
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I think that part is fair but at the same time the concept of a “Silent Majority” whenever it’s brought up as a serious argument annoys me greatly especially when we do have measurable statistics. When we have like 90k reviews which mention actual like, concrete reasons for what people like and dislike about a game and when those reviews are literally larger than the current player pool.
It feels like it’s being used as a nebulous shifting goalpost in this case which greatly irritates me.
Sure we don’t have EVERY single person’s opinion on the crafting system but at the same time from everything I’ve seen the most positive thing I’ve read about the crafting is either it’s fine if you ignore it or being able to live with it because other parts were fine.
Even if you could find a sizable pool of players going “I actually kind of like the crafting” i would be more charitable to it but there is literally nothing.
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I just want to say that I want crafting to change, and I think the current system is awful. I don’t doubt that a lot of people have left from it.
Just that I don’t think everyone left because of it. And additionally, it might only be one part of a collection of reasons a person might have left the game. Conrol f-ing, as you mentioned, is not the easiest way or more water tight way of gathering data.
At the end of the day it is just arguing semantics, but that’s pretty much my purpose on the forums atm so I’m here for it.
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Right, sorry for the late response but time is somewhat limited for forum debates these days.
That said, let me preface with an apology for an actual assumption on my part combined with sloppy language leading to confusion.
In this case, that i talked about logistics and the people involved in it and assumed that point would be understood, which was the reasoning behind my statement regarding faith.
My bad there.
So, assumption might work if i didn’t know anything about the process or logistics, but i do, along with experience managing people and the myriad of ways things can go to hell in a handbasket there, so i simply hope/trust/believe that the people responsible for what i have to interact with on a daily basis also feel like making sure that all happens more or less according to the agreed upon plan and without an uptick in blood pressure on my part.
Not theology or assumption, faith is the correct word especially since it somewhat contradicts my own experiences.
Not that human interaction is required for faith either, you can have faith in an automated system producing a correct/fair/wrong result too, but already getting deep in the weeds here so I’ll not poke that beehive any further.
And this is before we get into the borderline oxymoron of using “having no faith in” when describing an expected result, like trains not being on time when say, using the totally random example of being in the UK for a month or two.
Sure, you can use assumption there (I’m just going assume someone will screw up and the train will be late) but you can also go “I have faith that the (insert staff or position here) will screw this up somehow and we’ll be 30 minutes late” as an example.
Net result? I’d argue it’s the same.
I’m also very much a non-subscriber to theology myself so not the reason why i picked up on it, as it’s a word that’s been co-opted seemingly just to add some legitimacy or shut down debate around the term “belief”, with loyalty being the “original” use case for faith.
And so it’s said since nuance on the internet is a thing, no hostile intent or anything here or previously, I just happen to enjoy (non-idiom) semantics!
Nope, see above.
Well no.
By using assume there, you indicate a belief in an outcome not based on facts or information.
Presume might actually be a better pick as the phrase you use indicates/is supposed to indicate that you’re making a prediction on an outcome based on experience and being jaded by that experience, which is in not an assumption, but a presumption.
Alternatively, I could also say I know what your point was even if the chosen wording is open to being picked at, which i do (and did?), even if it doesn’t really change my original point.
See above for an apology regarding my own unclear language.
On a closing note, will leave any further semantics debates for a thread i now hope @brosgw starts outside of the crafting thread.
Call it Mourningstar 3AM bar talk or something.
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Did I just read that FS with Darktide doesn’t have the same playerbase that backs them up as HD2?
lol
Yeah… I wonder why.
Warhammer 40k is a huge title with a fandom that is starving for a good game.
They could’ve reached similar numbers to HD2.
But they chose to release an unfinished mess and left their costumers without any real updates or communication for months.
Now compare the communication between Arrowhead and Fatshark… Yeah I’m really not sure why so many people stop playing Darktide and lose interest and trust in Fatshark. Really odd… 
Darktide won’t ever reach numbers like HD2 in the future but it could have.
I was once pretty invested in this forum as I loved the gameplay and wanted the game to improve. Nowadays I just scroll through the topics and smurk at posts that critique the mechanics or try to suggest improvements to the game as FS never replied to any of those nor did they ever really address any.
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Arrowhead’s CEO is apparently an incredibly chill dude who is better at managing the community than the actual CMs. He’s on Twitter daily making it known people are heard.
When was the last time Fatshark’s CEO had anything to say?
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Ahaha sounds fun to me. I love epistemology and such. Linguistics is cool but not as much education directly on that one.
But it’s as you say. Semantics. You can use faith in the secular way you use it. I don’t think it’s inappropriate or inaccurate. I just personally avoid using it because I don’t like the history and associations with it and sometimes feel I could give the wrong impressions.
As mentioned
1- the religious/spiritual connotations
2- the belief in something, not just lack of evidence but the continued belief in the face of contradictions.
3- It being seen as a virtue and a skill. To hold faith in something despite hardships and evidence against it. (He lost his wife, his kids, and his legs, but he still has faith).
Like you said, it doesn’t have to have those meanings. It’s more become adopted in a more colloquial sense of hope, strong conviction/belief, trust or confidence in something, or to simply assume something without taking it for granted.
I just think there are better alternatives.
I don’t even like saying “bless you” or “good bye” (etymological roots of “God be with ye”) and try to say alternatives to both.
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For me, the bare-bones textbook definition of “faith:” complete trust or confidence in someone or something, is dubious enough that I rarely, if ever choose it because in the context of my own lens I find it hard to believe that anyone other than the deranged, disingenuous or willfully ignorant could possibly have complete confidence in anything.
After reading follow up replies which verged on unnecessarily verbose it’d definitely veer into masturbatory if we bother any further.
The math fails because this assumes that none of those people have changed their mind. It assumes that their concerns are the same as they were at the date they were taken. It also assumes that all of those players are still here. This is a forum post which has persisted through multiple iterations of Darktide with people joining and leaving at different times, the only constant is the forum itself as an itemized history of anyone who has ever complained about crafting ever, as opposed to a live forum that monitors the people who are still playing/interested and are still present.
First, you have the Static Opinions Assumption. This assumes that the opinions or concerns expressed in the forum posts have remained unchanged over time, ignoring the possibility that individuals views might have changed based on later iterations. As it has been said, some people come to just voice their frustration for a one post and leave. This is not a conclusive sample
Second, which kinda follows the first: The Consistent Participation Assumption. This assumes that all participants who once voiced concerns are still active in the forum or still hold the same concerns, overlooking the dynamics of forum membership where users may leave or become inactive over time.
All of this points to a failure to account for the changing context or updates to the game that might alter the relevance of past complaints or feedback for those who can’t be verified.
Basing the playerbase upon a history of one-shot posts (some granted, are not) is an easy way to confirm what you suggest to be in existence because the historical data never changes. It’s true that there are many negative reviews, and again we can’t know definitively without going through each review, checking with the reviewer that they’ve played the latest iteration of DT, and verified that their opinions are the same. With Recent reviews, we face the same issue in which those who want to complain will, and those who are still playing have either not submitted or review, or already have.
I’ve been doing the exercise you suggested about asking about crafting system. I get mixed reviews in every match. Feels about 50/50. In a game with low pop, I could understand why FS wouldn’t make drastic changes, but more gradual ones.
Your sample size in using the forum as a measure fails because it has no control for people to check and see if the one-shot posters have changed their opinions. Some of these posts are dated in 2022 with no follow-up.
That in itself is a flaw and cannot be accepted as conclusive evidence; this only serves as confirmation bias.
Fatshark historically do not make gradual changes. Whether it’s a policy, structual or contractual thing, they dump in dozens and dozens of changes at once and the general MO is to use multiple or heavy-handed changes to curb specific behaviours, regardless of what else those changes affect, either individually or in combinations with other changes.
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Compared to what? What is your base for comparison?
Another thing that makes me scratch my head is I’ve been accused of speaking in platitudes. And yet, the title of this forum thread is a platitude itself. “The Crafting Memorial; lest we forget.” That kinda seems backwards to me.
I think you read quickly, but not very deeply. I didn’t say you speak in platitudes. It was a provisional statement to make clear being polite works but those are common pit falls one could fall into.
I feel like more than half the messages I send to you are just trying to rephrase or reclarify things.
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Yeah I remember that, then the playerbase ate them alive for having the audacity to apologize.
I didn’t say you did. Is this projection? Or, do you remember saying something to that effect? Because I don’t remember who said it. Not for a lack of digesting what is said, but due to a sheer volume of flak I got in this thread for having the nerve to disagree.
Who claimed you explicitly speak in platitudes then?
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