It’s not just about settling for “good enough” gear and ignoring the bigger issues; rather, it’s about understanding that even if the crafting system is a core pillar of progression, it doesn’t dominate the gameplay experience to the extent that nothing else feels worthwhile unless it aligns perfectly with the ideal progression rate. There seems to be a false dichotomy in the argument that either we accept the crafting system as-is, acknowledging it’s flawed and not fun, or we must completely overhaul it to make any enjoyment possible.
What I’m suggesting is that we don’t need to accept the system as completely broken or perfect, but instead look for ways to adjust and balance it so it fits better with the pacing of the game and the enjoyment of a wider range of players. Let’s not reduce the issue to ‘all or nothing’ choices.
What you’re advocating for is “it’s either got the perfect roll, or it’s never good enough.” This mindset simplifies player motivations into a binary perspective, which doesn’t reflect the diverse ways players find satisfaction in games. This false dichotomy overlooks the fact that many players enjoy gradual improvements and strategic gameplay, not just achieving perfect outcomes. Additionally, it misrepresents the argument for a more rewarding crafting system, which is often about feeling a consistent sense of progress and value from the game, rather than always achieving the best possible result.
I like when a person says they’ve done enough and are going to go do something else, and then immediately returns. Is this the gambo grindset I’ve heard about?
Just a heads-up, if too many replies get flagged the thread will get locked, and you’d be the reason, not sure if you want to be the guy that locked this thread
Then that is censorship and if that happens, then that is on the Mods.
I don’t care one way or another…
And if fat shark want to push more fans away, they might as well give up trying to make the next game, no one care… And if it’s anything to games workshop, after what they have done it will probably fail.
Look at this sick filth. Imagine giving your players the ability to modify their weapons as they see fit so they can easily experiment and try out a variety of builds without much hassle. Disgusting, I can’t believe Overkill has been allowed to get away with this for so long. Somebody should do something.
Don’t the people playing PD2 know they can do loud DSOD with an unmodified Amcar and Chimano, no skills and no perk deck? Therefore they shouldn’t need this kind of freedom, let alone want it.
It’s BS and it’s wrong. Especially as FatShark themselves stated on their own website that what to steer away from RNG, but here we are.
The muppet that changed my post to the above hasn’t got a clue what he is talking about. People are only wanting what FatShark still say they don’t want.
An unpopular opinion’s favorite fable. The silent minority.
Arguing on behalf of a silent minority to attempt to put weight into an argument is simply disingenuous.
Wanna play another game?
For every positive Steam review that mentions the crafting system as a key factor for their enjoyment, I will post you three that gave it a negative one for the same reason. People are less likely to leave a positive review when they are satisfied with something, but the ratio of players that negatively comment on the crafting system compared to those who praise it in the reviews should tell you all you want to know.
Are you sure you read what you typed out?
You paraphrase what we need. A non gambling based system that gives you gradual improvements instead of a slot machine that is either hit or miss. There is no instant perfect outcome with such a system. With a system that builds up towards a goal, perfection is just the end of the road for that one weapon, until the next balance patch rolls over it, or you decide to build a different one, or even a copy with changed perks.
If your “goal” would be to avoid sudden perfection, steering away from randomness should suit you.
There is no consistent sense of progress atm. You can sink millions of Ordo and Steel into the current crating system and come up with no progress whatsoever. It does not matter if the time you acquired those materials was fun or not. You will feel defeated when that happens.
So you are just another Gatekeeper that is happy with his Loadout and would feel pain when other people will not have to suffer like they did to reach an equal point. That is your whole reason for this “dialog”. Thumbs up
Just a heads up. Your “hard work” of having luck with the slot wouldn’t be pointless, or rendered useless by people having an easier time to get there. It would function just the same as it did before.
I would happily torch my whole arsenal and start from scratch if we got a system like this in return. What is even the point of drawing a win when the next balance patch turns it to ash anyway?
There’s tonnes of suggestions and proposals people have advocated for that weren’t my favourite that I still would have been content with. Hell even just removing the locks all together isn’t good enough but I would tolerate it.
But the point still stands. You talk about you having issues with the system and it only needing tweaks… So what are the tweaks?
You’re coming across as quite hostile. I want to point out that we’re simply discussing a video game and its mechanics, which are complex and worth a calm discussion. If this topic is making you this upset, it might be good to take a break and cool down a bit. It’s difficult to have a productive conversation if emotions run too high. If we can’t discuss this reasonably, then it might not be worth continuing the conversation.
Now, it’s interesting that you’re leaning heavily on Steam reviews to make your point about the crafting system. But let’s not forget, these reviews tend to come from people who are either really upset or over the moon—hardly a balanced view. Also, isn’t it a bit contradictory to criticize using unverifiable points while you yourself are basing arguments on a source that’s famously skewed by extreme opinions? We should look for more reliable ways to gauge the entire player base’s feelings, not just those loud enough to write a review.
Advocacy for Systematic Change
I believe we can all agree that some change would benefit the game. My aim is to discover a solution that respects the efforts already invested by players, while also providing opportunities for those who may not have been as fortunate. Finding a balanced approach that accommodates everyone would be ideal.
Criticism of Current System’s Impact
It’s highly unlikely that you won’t find the gear you need to compete in Auric Maelstroms. The desire for perfectly optimized stats is often based on a vacant appeal to extremes. If your goal is to hit specific damage thresholds with a Mk VId Recon Lasgun and you’re not making it, that’s not the end of the world. Even with the Plasma Gun, at the lowest end of the listed range [83.5 | 116.50], the range of that percentile is less than half of the maximum dmg output. It doesn’t even make an entire shot! If it did, it’d be overkill on everything but a Plague Ogryn/Beast of Nurgle/Chaos Beast anyway. Your argument seems to assume that you’re dependent on a single weapon and lack support, which isn’t the case. With your team’s combined firepower and the full range of your equipment, these differences in stats generally don’t significantly impact overall gameplay.
Dismissal of Loss from Change
I understand the need for adjustments to make the game more approachable, but it’s equally important to recognize that completely simplifying the progression system could be seen as handing out achievements too easily. Just as you’re concerned about the unfairness of a luck-based system, we should also consider the value of effort and skill in gaming. Overly simplifying the game’s mechanics might diminish the sense of accomplishment that many players value. In essence, we’re striving for a fair system that rewards both new and veteran players without reducing the game to mere handouts, thereby preserving the challenge and satisfaction that come from genuine achievement.
