and how would the game have any difficulty?
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just buff everybody to be on the same level as ogryn, easy, then the games difficulty will come from skill, point allocation, and teamwork, rather than if you’re using the DS with revolver or not.
Is this advanced satire?
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uhhh…
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I think Darktide is cooked on the balance side of things, and I doubt it’s going to get better soon seeing as how regardless of how OP something is or how many OP things there are you still have people yelling bloody murder at the thought of nerfing stuff or review bombing after seeing a DRAFT of a potential nerf. (Ds4 & Plasma gun)
Maybe darktide 2 will be better if it ever releases
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It’s store rotation day, you know what that means!
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Yeah, what’s more likely: Fatshark, the company that didn’t notice it was shipping the wrong branch for a year, is being hysterically incompetent when trying to earn money, or Fatshark, the company that, again, can’t be arsed to make sure their game matches their test branch, is somehow superhumanly competent data-crunchers who KNOW that not being the scummiest people on planet earth will make them lose money and somehow not getting on top of Arbites hype is part of that?
The simplest explanation is usually the best: the store is garbage because the store is part of Fatshark’s RNG fetish, and it’s incompetently put together and run, just like every other system at launch.
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That’s not true even for this forums standards.
Saying something is “insanely OP to the point of being Pay To Win” is very different than asking for minor adjustments accross his kit. I expected better from you, absurdism only take us to misery. Please stop dramatizing stuff so much in regards to nerfs, I don’t want the good stuff brought down to white lv1 weapons level thanks.
Ogryn is similarly busted, mostly due to having no real bad options
…I fail to see how is this a bad thing? Also Power maul is still around, twin heavy stubber is garbage tier as well, so there you go, at least 2 bad options.
- Vet and to a lesser extent Zealot feel left behind
Agreed, not in power level, but in therms of build flexibility/fun. This also contradicts your first two statements above…Pick a lane.
- Dueling Sword and Plasma Gun need nerfs, even though it seems to summon the Chinese playerbase to start review bombing (seriously wtf)
It doesn’t make them wrong tho. Or only the holders of the "RIGHT OPINION™ " have a voice in the book? I thought this was a community effort, as in all community voices…not a select few.
- The enemies are too weak, players need to be nerfed to directly address this rather than the roundabout circus of buffing enemies to the point all the non-OP gear becomes useless.
I said it in the other thread and I’m gonna repeat here:
Ask for elite clown car nerfs instead of player nerfs. This way the “filthy newbs” will start seeing things with your glasses i.e. game will feel too easy and they will agree to player nerfs without throwing tantrums.
Dude, there are people essentially ignoring game mechanics through raw power rn.
It’s not necessarily outright bad, it’s a function of the skill tree being really damn solid and pretty much every aspect of his kit being great.
How does ‘these classes are OP’ and ‘these other classes have been left behind in the power creep’ contradict each other?
If you’re review bombing over a nerf to something that most of the community regards as OP, your take is wrong and invalid. The power sword complainers from ages past were wrong then, the ds/plasma complainers are wrong now. If they could make a case for it, I’d have a different opinion, but I haven’t heard one that doesn’t boil down to ‘EVERYTHING SHOULD BE BUFFED FOREVER’ in one way or another.
They will never agree to player nerfs. The mere suggestion of weapons being nerfed brought forth the review bomb horde. And this isn’t the era of RNG crafting where such annoyance was moderately justified (as getting a ‘good’ weapon meant a massive time investment), this is the time where a ‘perfect’ weapon is basically five minutes of time investment away for anyone with more than fifty hours of playtime.
So no, nerf the players and the enemy numbers, drag this game back to a functional kind of density where skill matters rather than ability spam and broken weapons, and endure the whining.
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Weren’t you mister “straw man” yesterday?
Oh yeah, you were.
Turns out it was projection the whole time.
Oddly always seems to be with the “never nerf, don’t touch my fun” crowd.
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For anyone with this opinion, I know this will likely not change your mind but I hope in some way this shift of perspective might.
Card games.
Yugioh is the most premium example, but all of them have fallen into this trap at this point. The Yugioh of your childhood doesn’t and hasn’t existed for decades, why? Because all card games follow this montra, because if they ever make a set that isn’t more broken than the last, nobody buys it.
Now, a game that used to be a back and forth of numbers, playing funny monster cards and setting spell cards before passing back to your opponent, extending to 15+ turn games that, to be fair weren’t exactly ‘skill expressive’ for yugioh but allowed anyone to get into it. Has since devolved into 1-3 turn games, a player comboing off for 15-20 minutes, the other player playing 1-3 cards that either out that board due to their obscene broken nature, or get countered. And then either THEY then combo off to finish the game, combo off enough to lock their opponent out of the game after breaking their board, or surrender.
This is the direction Darktide is taking, and this is the direction every single game will take if you ‘just buff everything and never nerf’. Another fantastic example that I’ve brought up in a few posts is Destiny 2. That game is functionally unplayable, as throwing a grenade results in 3-4 particle effect aoe explosion detonations that wipe the screen, resulting in 5-10 buffs flashing across the side of your screen, all of which making you immortal as you then activate your melee ability (functionally a second grenade at this point), do the exact same thing, and then shoot your gun maybe, and that’s only if you didn’t just get enough of your Transcendance bar to ignore your guns entirely. The game can’t provide good levels of combat challenge, because you shift between two waky equilibrium of ‘everything dies before me and I am a god’ and ‘the enemy just 1 shot me because they physically can’t hurt me other wise this is bull’.
Havoc was already doing that in it’s previous iterations, but was made rather fun/exhilarating as you had ways to somewhat mitigate it, and if you didn’t want the tightrope walk you could play lower level havocs or go play Auric for fun. Now, Arbite is so obscenely busted that Auric gets tripped over so long as theirs just one with a dog on the team, Havoc gets tripped over in the highest difficulties by a pack of them not even using/abusing Golden Toughness. And unlike Ogryn, who you can say is at least ‘balanced’ around the fact they can’t go very fast so can still get caught out if they aren’t careful, this class has passive movement speed for breathing and is able to go at mock ten with gob tones of stamina thanks to their weapon choices, and has a dog that gives them infinite forgiveness as it does half their job for them and functions as a free grenade every 5 or so seconds.
If one wants further proof, see my reply here:
I saw a comment by Ragnarok101 in another forum that put it succinctly (paraphrasing a bit though as I don’t wanna go find it again), but until the Arbite update, Ogryns where a bit overtuned but fun to play and still felt fun to have on the team as they where slow, so all the tinies got to get to the enemies first, have a bit of fun, and Ogryn’s then cleaned up after them. A good balance was struck, life was good, and while outliers like the Duelling Sword existed, they wouldn’t outright ruin games, just make them go a bit faster and make people complain about their efficiency on the top end.
Arbite broke all that over their Knee and said ‘f that, I’m the captain now’. They push faster than any class outside a Zealot (who might get a few melee swipes in before they catch up), they are as immortal as an Ogryn, they have a dog that AoE clears waves every pounce thanks to applying 8 BLEED AND ELECTROCUTION + BRITTLENESS as they sail through the wave to their target (the Veteran Grenade applies 6, in case anyone was wondering, and that’s on a 60 second cooldown unless you’re in stupidly high havoc with Demo Team). Don’t want the dog? Bam, enough stats to make even the Ogryn blush, and a trip mine that functions as a ‘smite but good’, and stuns literally everything for 15s while being on a 60 second CD. Let Castigators 80% Damage reduction carry you through any of the time in between, and you functionally can’t die.
There’s been complaints about Auric being ‘toned down’, and sure, the story missions being in the QP pool makes some games feel sparse and garbo. But this feeling isn’t because of Auric (despite some screencaps coming from story missions and seeming like the enemies where halved), this is because of Arbite. I open my steam replay, go to the last Auric game I played of the night (which felt like ‘slightly above a normal damnation, maybe’), this is the amount of kills.
We tripped over this. The one death was Ser-Stoic pushing forward a bit to far, not timing the dodge for a Crusher overhead, and and us simply needing to deal with the wave and not quite being able to get to him before enough of the slams brought down his HP. Beyond that? Smooth sailing, 3k kills, walked through like a slighty stiff breeze. All thanks to our canine companions and our ability to mash the attack button after everything got stunned by them.
You buff every class up to this level, game becomes unplayable. People will be running 40 level Havocs ‘just for the fun of it’, tossing on their Infantry Lasgun that cleaves through the wave and sets everything on fire on weakspot hit, while you shout and everything gets knocked over and electrocuted and set on fire. Zealot casts invis and suppresses everything on screen, before popping out and doing it again, while Psyker gets hit in the face by a Crusher overhead and goes from 20-60 peril because of ‘warp shielding’ or some sh!t and laughs as his Inferno staff now brittles to target by 80%. The director is crying and lagging excessively as Poxwalkers where replaced with crushers 8 patches ago, and they die so fast the difference is hardly noticed beyond the model being hard to see past. The token Arbite is still brought along because dogs are annoying and it’s nice to invalidate them completely, but everyone still complains about Trappers, who are now spammed 30 at a time just to give any semblance of difficulty while 15 snipers sit on the roof across from you and all die to one BB that applies 8 stacks of Soulblaze to everything around them.
This is not a game anymore, this is a VFX simulator, and if you want that, you can go play Destiny 2. It is that, it has been that for half a decade, and continues to double down on being that. But people came to this game because it provided challenge AS WELL as a bit of OP fun, and stuck with this game because it let you bounce between both. That isn’t the case anymore, and what went from ‘a minor re-adjustment to the big man and some touch ups on some weapons’ became ‘Arbite solo wins the entire game by itself no contest’. I had a game yesterday where all of my team mates DC’d (it was an inferno QP mission, half way through the floor became lava and they all died and understandably left, I decided to press on because ‘f it why not’). I won that match. I trounced, the rest of the mission, and the only times I was scared was the two trapper spawns that happened between me and the exit. I solo’d the captain at the end, nothing but bots at my side. And I say this not as a ‘pro gamer flexing’, I should have died. When nobody else filled the rando slots (likely because haha server), I should have been dead to rights by something, and any time before this I would have been. I wasn’t, I won, and I laughed a depressed laugh and gave myself a ‘gg’ in the chat before leaving.
This game will become that, and the funniest Irony imaginable is if they go through and over buff everyone to the point of this game dying off, then finally release solo mod because ‘why not? players can’t die anyway, might as well let them have all the kills’.
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It’s funny how they show up throwing insults around and just being aggressive in general while at the same time labeling anyone that doesn’t agree with them as toxic.
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My favorite part is how they ALL come in with the same wildly off base claims that no one supporting nerfs is asking for.
You elitist try hards just want dark(tide) souls! one hit kill enemies! paper weapons! 10 mins to kill one crusher!
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“It’s pve! Reeeee”
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This is a good read and highlights points well.
NewOgryn exhibits qualities but segmented to his role as tank and frontline hold.
Arbites exhibits qualities from all other classes, but can exceed them. Movement of Zealot, toughness recovery stacking of an Ogryn and strike of bully3b, maul is light in weight giving mobility. Break the line mimics Zealot dash and guarantee stagger to floor like bull rush, effective in use of defence and offence. Heavy bolter can multi snipe one shot as good as plasma vet. With only weakness of stun duration like Psyker.
I want to make distinction from Quickplay and Havoc. As people keep saying it isn’t OP in Havoc.
Look at Quickplay, what most people play. Without synergy which is Quickplay the gap between Arbites is larger in survival and dealing with horde/armour packs than Vet and Psyker. So the preference in lobbies shows in match making.
So yea someone replies to me Arbites needs to be OP, needs to be strong, DS leave it alone etc. I don’t bother responding, if they don’t get it now, they won’t ever so what is the point.
“Play Havoc” - No thanks, party finder, interview, people get upset over rank decay. Nope for me
“Play Maelstrom” - Sorry but this is easier than Auric because experienced and new players in this often know max build exploit. At least Auric has newer players to carry as higher self-challenge.
Doom eternal - Infinite ammo. Warhammer 3, 10x income. That’s the mentality of some people now. There is no tension in god mode or feeling of accomplishment.
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I mean, I suppose if we were to balance around malice, we need to remove all class tree abilities, weapon perks, blessings and character levels in order to feel challenged.
Starts making a lot more sense if I assume people here only play malice. (I know people don’t only play Malice but come on)
I occasionally like having my balls twisted (don’t kink shame), so I did the 40 climb in 1.0 and 2.0. But even I would not recommend it this season. Every attempt I’ve tried has been absolute torture of networking issues, the map crashes, Heinous Ritual bugs, the subsequent DHs flying all over like crazy (Chaos Spawn and Px Hounds go wild spinning right now too), Captain Shield insta-downs, no-limit monstrosity spawns, etc. All this on top of the party finder torture. And I don’t even care about penances and deranks anymore, so I don’t have that burden over my head, I just want the challenge.
Season 3 is straight Surströmming.
I was so hyped over the Dark Rituals skulls event and even had some hope for where the game was going.
Having hope is how you know I’m new around here.
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Arbites has turned the entire game into malice, ffs the average auric mealstrom mission is completed in 15 minutes now.
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I’ve swapped off of arbitrator because I’ve had enough power creep for one update and played through all of the classes, it’s crazy how much more I have to try to achieve the same.
Reminds me of this song:
Everything the rejects do Arbitrator does better
Boss dmg? ✓
Horde clear? ✓
Dealing with Elite spam? ✓
Staying alive? ✓
CC? ✓
Solo clutching? ✓
Taxes? ✓
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