The Art of War - Guerilla tactics

For exchange a topic with a lighter “mood” again.

Lohner has send the U5 to a lot of places and let them run a lot of tasks, basically leading a guerilla warfare in an occupied city. Ressources (weapons, material, people) are scarce and have to be used with utmost effectivity. So from the perspective of warfare, which is the mission with the most impactful result/goal:

  • In Vermintide 1 (excluding the Rasknitt fight)
  • In Vermintide 2 (all missions)
  • In Vermintide 2 (excluding Lord missions)

Also, which is the mission the most useless in the large picture (both games)? For example, in Vermintide 1 you cover tasks like informing the city of the assault, providing food to the resistance, avoiding the poisoning of the trink water supplies or killing a giant army in the Enemy from below. All of these are important but maybe the issues could have been circumvented. Which would have proven to be the most fatal if not carried out.

For Vermintide 2 you have to play diversion, repair your personal teleporter system or stop the summoning of a demon. Which was the most critical?

For one question I will give my answer already. The most useless mission in the large picture is Against the Grain. Unless it is implied that the measly cages we opened have just been representive for a lot more people like in the hundreds or even thousands or that we secured the farmlands and/or ressources in the same vein, I just don’t see the point. Why spending ressources on a handful of farmers? Not much would have changed if they died. The farms are still occupied as we ran away, so this has only been about a couple of lives.

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The suggestion in Against the Grain is that you’re preventing the pact sworn from using people to complete the skittergate, but there’s so few left alive that the gate gets completed anyhow. Keri has a line about a ‘few measly lives’ or something like that.

Athel Lenui doesn’t seem to offer any tangible benefits either as there isn’t some obvious benefit of the alignment of the lay lines.

I personally think Righteous Stand is quite offensive to the U5, as they’re the best Lohner has ‘and always will be probably’ yet he sends them in to just cause a load of trouble. Send someone truly expendable to simply cause a ruckus.

Screaming Bell might be entirely pointless if it’s just another bloody bell. We never found that out did we?

Festering Ground and Convocation of Decay sound like you’re stopping them from acquiring something way beyond the U5’s power to handle.

Oof this is hard ._.

Most important…would probably be Athel Yenlui because if that wasnt fixed the gate of shadows would not work, if that didnt work they´d not be able to access a number of missions or escape skittergate alive for that matter.

Heck, they´d be unable to even use the keep as their base, have you seen just where that place is built?

Most useless…screaming bell if it was just a bell, otherwise troll mine because heck, i dont feel like a few extra trolls would have done much. The people saved from the farm meanwhile went to the fort and helped there after the siege was broken if i am not mistaken.

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Those “bloody bells” are reknowned for their ability to induce madness in those not attuned to their foul magics. While there are many in existence, it’s best if they’re not pounding away at what few warriors still stand.

More broadly speaking: I’d say that the most impactful thing done was the capturing and hiding of the tomes and grimiores while killing a few 1000 rats at a time, which (IMO) makes the Wizards Tower from the first game the most critical place to protect; it’s another inn, is a place where we’re collecting artifacts, and would probably have been the losing point of the city if the skaven took it.

Least effective? Probably Righteous Stand. “Distract them” isn’t great for 5 people; they’d never send more than 0.01% of their warforce to deal with us. We were more distracting while burning their food stores.

Moreover, even if the things we do seem super impactful, our successes over evil aren’t exactly viewed in the best light if there’s something, laterally beside them, that’s equally as dangerous (ya boi up North be comin’). I mean… they are the end-times. I’d say we’re most effective, in the grand-scheme of things, destroying the Bells (those would impact human armies around either major city) or the burning of their food stores.

This issue with the bells is that it is binary or broadly spoken a Schrödinger’s Cat. So long as we do not simply ignore them we will never find out. As Zaru said, if it is just another ceremonial bell the whole mission was pointless. If it was indeed a Screaming Bell it was a terrifying asset of war. We just can’t tell.

Concerning the distraction. It depends on what scale the distraction was needed. It was enough to stir up a part of Helmgart. If the place Olesya goes is close by it would be enough to give her more freedom in her own task. Additionally, the U5 received godly intervention. This might have raised an eyebrow or two within enemy ranks if they can sense that. However, Lohner couldn’t plan for that.

I think you get the information about that while destroying the chains, right?
The callouts from the heroes seem to imply that it’s a real screaming bell.

That also leaves the question to how that works. Was the killing the price for the intervention, the ringing of the bell just the invocation? Does Sigmar work like Ereth Kial? Do all gods just work with souls? Are Warhammer and Full Metal Alchemist in some way connected? Questions over questions…

As for most important/unimportant mission…

Dark Omens seems pretty impactful, but i don’t know what would’ve happened if the Ü5 didn’t interrupt the ritual. Some of the Beastmen schemes are apocalyptical, but it’s the End Times, almost everything is.
Also why the hell did we need to free that daemon in Old Haunts? Only to progress? Should’ve just beaten down that gate. The map basically led us to freeing that thing. Thanks, Lohner. Very impactful, very unimportant.

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Freeing his slaves, burning his supplies and burying his dreams of power.

I guess there was not many slaves, tens, not hundreds or thousands, as villages is not very populated areas.

On the other side, 30-40 is still endlessly more than 0.

Doubt rasknitt was to use plebs from fields to build anything, that was just the plan to draw rot blood champions attention

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Tis, most certainly, a screaming bell. If it wasn’t why would Lohner (the most informed and, apparently, deadly man in the Empire) send the U5? With that in mind, it wasn’t just an asset… it would have, single-handedly, brought down a city. At least, that’s if the lore behind screaming bells is accurate and the humies do, in fact, have troops in/around the city that we never get to see.

I can actually, also, get on-board with Old-Haunts for reasons above.

Lohner states in the mission intro that he cant tell which type it is though, that´s why u5 get sent to sabotage it, “just to be safe”.

Anything specific in mind? I cant recall any stating that, just bardin and saltz saying “well good thing that it its done” pretty much. Nothing about it being a screaming bell.

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Tis true… but then, why would skaven drag up a giant single-cast creation of solid metal from the depths of their undercities?

They’re a superfluous people, but they aren’t overly fond of giant tools that don’t somehow annihilate a portion of another race’s population. Doomwheels, Screaming Bells, Hell-Pit Abominations… pretty much everything they design is murder-oriented.

If they made me a 20ft tall gift basket I’d burn it to be on the safe side :stuck_out_tongue:

I mean, rats in end times as we saw from ubersreik, are into territory occupation and conquest right? At least that´s what keri said about them in contrast to the northlanders. So the bell could be entirely monumental/ceremonial in nature or it could be a screaming bell.

And to be honest i am inclined to believe it to be decorative since it seems kind of like a giant overkill to put up a giant weapon of mass destruction up in an area they´d nearly swept clean…but then again they are the little cheesebrained fellows who dragged in their own moon as close as possible before blowing it up thinking they´d somehow survive a giant orbital bombardment of volatile magic rock.

There’s a line while breaking the chains, something along the line of “I wish this was a silent one, like the one in Ubersreik” when it starts ringing.

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Wasnt the one in Ubersreik a screaming bell though? O_O

I’d say the most important mission in the first game is the enemy below, if only for the kill count you manage to get. The most useless one - well watch feels useless, but the concept is important - I’d say stromdorf: it’s the most important storywise, but it’s a failure. We got to kill a chieftain though, which is always nice. Then perhaps waterfront, it’s nice to get payback, but we just destroyed 2 skaven tunnels there.

VT2 is pretty epic in scope. I’m not clear as to why there should be a bell in helmgart, so either that or against the grain.

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Not an active one though, according to that line.

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Depends I think. The one in “Man the Ramparts” was most likely a ceremonial bell. However, I thought the one in the final mission was a real one. Although not nearly as deadly as it should according to Lore.

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Yeah I forgot about that. Maybe its energies were directed towards the moon? I’m not sure exactly how they work.

A bit late, but yeah, they are multiple lines about it ‘being alive’ or ‘hearing voices’.
Sadly (not for the Ü5 of course), there are none.

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Hm, I have to admit that I never noticed those lines on a conscious level. So they are either rare or I just don’t pay attention. But by Sigmar, apparently you are right:

Victor Saltzpyre/Quotes - Vermintide 2 Wiki (gamepedia.com)
Bardin Goreksson/Quotes - Vermintide 2 Wiki (gamepedia.com)

Not sure why no quotes are listed for the other careers (maybe incomplete wiki or they truly dont have Screaming Bell specific text).

Also, answers one other question: Ow, bell’s gone crazy. I’d hoped it’d be one of the sleepy ones. Like the one in Ubersreik.

So Man the Ramparts was indeed completely pointless :stuck_out_tongue: On another note, I am still irritated though. Both in “White Rat” as well as “Screaming Bell” the bell has a summoning effect. However from what I remember, in Lore the Screaming Bell is described as a tool of mass destruction breaking down walls and making those who listen to it go insane. So do Skaven have different bells or is this just some downscaled-for-gameplay thingy?

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