Yes and a lot of that has to do entirely with wanting one gameplay only. Like not having near 100% sprint cost reduction stripped down being the sole reason for you boycotting the entire class. You hate playing with keystones, you only build certain nodes. You dislike playing with them. That certainly is a wide range of feedback. It also doesn’t reflect the reality of having the widest talent tree in the game, it only reflects on the user.
Sprinting everywhere isn’t even exactly thrilling or exciting skill based gameplay so if its enough to keep you out of my lobbies I’m secretly glad. I showed up to smite his enemies in battle (with death not that gross lightning).
I correct your sentence:
You only build certain nodes cause of the keystones.
And so… less gameplay. Can you understand and believe that I can dislike these keystones?
And I am not alone. When I see someone that has not picked a keystone, 95% of the time it is a veteran.
And soon you will tell how I am authorised to play?
Thank you, but I find that it WAS a good gameplay and even exciting.
Anyways, you’re happy with the veteran… great! Not me. End of the story.
YW, except he’s one of the ones that was advocating for it to remain at 8m, still does; weird take. I’d rather have weaker blessings that work more of the time than strong ones that never kick in. /hijack
The swap speed is an improvement overall, and helps the heavier weapons obviously, now that boltgun is back on the menu (for now).
Between the comments on the thread freaking out about zealot being a powerhouse with the dueling sword and a number of other comments I’m seeing around the forums (complaining about how the boltgun is now actually viable and effective not just on vet, or voidstrike being OP) it’s honestly looking like bunch of vet mains miffed that they’re not the ones with exclusive access to every overtuned piece of kit in a way that vets can take advantage…
Kinda irritating when vet’s been the one to consistently have extremely effective tools and synergy through builds, especially in a team setting, to edge out the others most of the time.
They complain about lack of identity (in a class where it’s basically great at everything overall) and refuse to engage with keystones to specialize, rather choosing to double-down on the “good at everything” suite.
When forum posters start to make Jakal seem like he’s talking sense… there’s a problem.
Its not even 1 less, you just refuse to play that same goof trip any other way. I have no idea why you’d run that without picking up both stamina regen nodes that actually give you infinite stamina so long as you buttslide, but that’s also your choice. It is apparently strong enough salt to boycott the largest tree in the game outright in addition to the other 2 characters already hated by you. What do you enjoy about the game again? All I hear is ‘this sucks this one change ruined everything and I can’t stand 3/4 classes in the game’. You’re right, I hope you do find a game to tickle your fancy.
tax points to switch lanes should be decreased. Being able to customize your build is the whole beauty of it and there is no reason why switching lanes should come with downsides
toughness or stamina could be added in different ways where it is a player choice
if there are meta builds switching lanes, then the solution is not to tax them, but to make the other nodes equally interesting. Otherwise you are treating the symptoms and not the root cause.
You’re right I’m attempting to discuss why that is and not stomping my feet having a tantrum over one loadout and literally professing to hate 3/4 classes in the game. That doesn’t really leave much room to discuss, if that’s your opinion just know that it is literally awful. I’ve seen the ‘I hate X class take’ but multiplying that by 3 doesn’t leave anything but salt. The game is actually pretty enjoyable, but not if you don’t want to experiment in it. I can’t even load the same class in 2 rounds in a row anymore, there’s so many ways to play. You’re missing out on tons, choosing to, and then demanding the game be homogenized along the play style you want. Of course I will say ‘nah’ to that.
Not true…
I love zealot. It was not my first choice, but I love it.
I like Ogryn, but it has no fast gameplay, so this is a little boring for me.
I don’t like psyker, cause of the “magic” part
I liked Veteran at first. Before patch 13, after patch 13… I don’t hate it. I hate the keystones. And I don’t like what they do with this class.
When they introduced keystones, I started to like it less. Then they made several changes and I started to see the scheme. They want to enforce interactions around keystones, and I HATE these keystones (maybe in capital and in bold you will understand).
So, I realize that it will become worse for me as they will just reinforce these gameplays I hate. I don’t want switching my weapon every 10 seconds, I don’t like that I should avoid to move, I don’t like to have to tag things just to get a bonus. I prefer keystones that naturally triggers, while doing what you usually do, like on Ogryn and on Psyker for 2 of the 3 keystones (I don’t consider hunting rabbits as a natural behavior).
What is awful is your wish to dictate what I should think.
I ask nothing. I will play the game until I find something better to play. This has always been and will be.
And I have tested a lot of things… I never stay on same gameplay too much time. Actually I take pleasure with the Achlys combat axe.
And that’s also what is made me think that I will have to stop this game sooner or later. Cause, as you have noticed a little (but not entirely the entire scheme), yes my gameplay is restricted. But it looks like that, cause I don’t like the general direction for the veteran. And this doesn’t mean that I will never play again the veteran. I just said that I don’t actually feel any pleasure in it. Cause changes after changes, it has gone to a road I dislike totally (I don’t know how to explain it to you… I feel that I have done it at least 3 times and you don’t understand, or, and I would prefer that, you don’t want to understand - This would be less desperate that you just don’t want to understand).
I never really liked psykers. I played them to know the class as it can help you to know what other classes can do. Ogryn, this is fun to play it sometimes.
What I really loved is veteran / zealot, and I prefer fast gameplay with them. But as I said I don’t like the general direction of veteran. As I always say, you should never force you to play a game. I won’t force me to play a gameplay I hate. Is it so hard to understand? How I have to write it to you?
I hate veteran keystones and I cannot play something I hate!
Sorry if it is not enough larger. I can’t increase more the font size.
Now to conclude, there are tons of games that will come… and Fatshark could also deliver a new archetype that will please me. And still I have my zealot.
Most good melee vet builds practically have a third of all points allocated to modifier nodes. Surely it can’t be good design for a third of your entire build to just be uninteractive stats right? That’s not even to call them “taxes”: they’re useful, but they’re just stats at the end of the day. You don’t want them and you don’t feel good about having them over actual talents, but you take them anyway out of necessity.
The stats aren’t relevant to the argument being made and for some reason the people arguing against aren’t really seeing that or are generating their own strawman or whataboutisms instead.
The point is that with the current structure it deliberately stymies build variety in a way that doesn’t feel necessary. Allowing for blitzes and abilities to be chosen with minimal nodes impeding flexibility instead of forcing you down a certain direction.
The OP’s cited stat nodes act as a buffer between the three branches. Instead of using a singular node to pivot from say flashbangs, to the right side of the tree, you’re forced to use 2 extra points just to get where you want to be. Yes, you’re accruing some stats along the way, but the point is that those could potentially be utilized more effectively to create more interesting builds rather than dealing with the “tax” of the tree’s current structure.
Vets already have a more open structure to their blitz abilities (initially) by having a singular unifying node to access any of them.
Something like that but inverted would (at least on the surface) allow for talent points to be utilized in more varied ways rather than immediately forcing additional points to be used to shift to the other side.
yes thats exactly what i want. i’m not even asking for it for psyker or ogryn because i believe their blitzs are a bigger part of their identity while for zealot and vet all their blitzes (aside from smokes being useless and throwing knives being a bit much) should be player choice and you shouldnt be forced to have one you dont enjoy just to make all the talent points you want.
Im struggling to understand what vanguard was doing for you that sprint efficiency on curios cant. Ive never seen a single ver build anywhere wether on youtube or here or reddit where someone took the vanguard skill. If you want sprint efficiency put it on your curios. Ive never had a problem with sprint efficiency on veteran so I dont understand how one node moved has completely changed how you play. Ive been playing with vet for a year and ive never ever used that skill nor have I seen anyone else running it. Most people dont ever even path that way in the tree. If you run stamina regen and sprint efficiency on curios you shouldnt have any problems playing vet and many people dont even play with sprint efficiency which imo helps alot.
