Veteran tree has too many nodes

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I’m just doing a quick hand count here, so bear with me and feel free to correct if needed. The following is a count of the amount of talent and stat nodes for each character, not counting blitzes, auras, ultimates, and keystones:

Ogryn: 30 talents, 19 stat nodes. 49 total.

Zealot: 37 talents, 16 stat nodes. 53 total.

Psyker: 20 talents, 18 stat nodes, and uniquely 6 nodes that modify blitzes. 44 total.

Veteran: 46 talents, 20 stat nodes. 66 total.

One of these things is not like the other. The amount of talent and stat nodes that a character has directly influences how easily the character can mix and match branches of the tree and how easily they can both reach and invest in their keystones. While the other classes hover around 50 of these nodes, Veteran clocks in at a demanding 66 nodes.

Veteran has about 15 nodes too-many to make his tree work like the other classes. We can’t even invest in our keystones unless we shoot directly down a single lane of the tree, because there just aren’t enough points. Meanwhile, there is no shortage of garbage-tier talents in his tree, especially following the heavy-handed nerfs to several of his talents in this patch. The Veteran tree is in desperate need of having several filler talents removed and other talents combined into a single node.

Edit: As an example of things they could change, the third row of nodes are a waste. It has 5% health, 1 stamina, and 5% movement speed. Fatshark could (and should) remove these nodes entirely, replacing them with 3 talents from the lower section of the tree. This removes 3 junk nodes and then makes some more desired talents more accessible. They could easily put talents like +25% ammo up here in place of the 5% health node, and solve multiple problems at once.

44 Likes
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Yeah I looked at the one connector node before the blitz and was like “oh nice”, but then realized it cost TWO more stat nodes to get to. If you wanted to go straight down whatever side you started on, you’re further taxed.

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So many unneccasary “tax” nodes in the Veteran talent tree. That is the main issue. There is some good talents but there is also unnecessary talents that bloating the talent tree. If we trim that vet would be a good class to build around. But then again aside from Focus Fire other key stones doesnt really offer that much to the class.

1 Like
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I agree, and if they are willing to ask the community openly, we can even tell them which ones are fundamentally bad, and should be removed.

At this point, not to be rude, but I wouldn’t trust them to cut the tree down in nodes.

7 Likes
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Absolutely agree. The only good thing about new vet tree is the new grenade placement. Rest kinda sucks. Most things from auras to abilities to keystones suck big time.

The amount of utterly pointless tax nodes is incredible. The amount of ability sub-nodes is just hilarious. Volley Fire sits there like an ugly duckling with goddamn 4 nonexclusive sub-nodes and only ONE of those is actually a proper ability empowerment.

PS: But heeeey, the damage aura is now 5% up from 3. Incredible, right? Right???

3 Likes
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It’s absurd. I was hoping they would make the Veteran more freeform, but not only did they make him MORE hardlock-specialized, they made Marksman even less desirable to Shout Vet, even with the 50 toughness nerf to Voice of Command.
Vet’s right keystone has five non-exclusive nodes. FIVE. That’s six points total. Who in the Emperor’s name is going to spend the points on that?? Ignoring the fact that the hotswap melee/ranged damage stacks playstyle has never worked in any game I’ve ever seen it attempted in, it’s such an absurd point investment that you literally cannot branch out AT ALL if you want to actually reach that Keystone and have enough points to fill it out.

Fatshark, can you tell me what Veterans have done to make you angry? Please? I genuinely don’t understand. I was actually looking forward to the Veteran overhaul, but it isn’t an overhaul - it’s barely even a rework. You shifted some nodes around and stapled the keystones onto the very end of the Veteran’s already very expensive talent trees. Completely ridiculous. I’m pushed closer to maining Zealot every single day - at least their Keystones are interesting and playstyle-defining.

9 Likes
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I thought this exact same thing when i first saw the new tree, its going to strictly limit how much cross over and variety you could have if you plan to get a keystone. They definitely need to remove some of the lowest picked talents

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Hold on, I recall one of the main complaints about previous Vet tree is the large amount of tax nodes compared to other ones, along with the lack of keystones. They made the issue WORSE?

3 Likes
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While I do think people are over reacting about Vet changes this is a fundamental problem with the design of the Vet tree. I assume it’s to make the feel of a “professional,” however in practice it feels awful and very rail roady.

Even just adding some cross paths between the bottom trees would be huge.

2 Likes
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yeah some nodes need to be combined, mainly the just base stat buff ones, we just dont have enough points to have varitey.

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a fully ranged class is kinda hard to fit into a tide game without being super OP, so they are struggling to find a middle point between under power and totaly breaking the game. Even so, I dont think vet is totaly useless now at all, but he did take a big hit. That being said, you are right about the keystone nodes, there are too many of them and most of them are really not worth the points at all.

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Immensely worse.
Right Keystone has five modifiers.
Also hey I remember you.

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It’s definitely bloated, it needs some trimming. A few minor effects rolled into one, useless ones gone, etc.

1 Like
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Hey there HoboBox! I remember you too. Just back to see Darktide make some painful, slow, limping steps towards being a better game before I inevitably get bored of watching. Hope you’ve been alright.

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Great work putting this together, mate.
+1 for (hoping against hope) FatShark’s attention.

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Not only does it have too many nodes, the actual layout of the tree sucks, with three long exclusive branches with no connecting paths between them.

Why even have a tree at this point? Just go back to the old system if there’s no way to move between trees to make a custom build.

3 Likes
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861xp7

13 Likes
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I can only agree. It’s too many nodes. The biggest issue is not the amount of nodes just by themselves, but also that many important nodes that used to be clustered are now split up. If you want the extra base elite damage and the extra unyielding / monster damage, you’d have to go deep left and deep middle.

Picking up everything useful for a melee build will also goad you into placing points all over the place. Going left, mid or right exclusively is usually not a good pick. You’ll miss essential ingredients to make the Veteran soup tasty.

3 Likes
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We existed during CBT, while the other 2 classes mostly suffered except for like preacher with his crit builds. Then people got angy and wanted vet nerfed to the ground, so we’re pretty much just living what the people on these forums who didn’t like fun wanted. That was a sad war we lost.(I was hysterically screaming for buffs to everything instead of nerfs at the time)

2 Likes
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No. You’re living what YouTubers who thought of themselves as “real pros” wanted. The Vet tree is the one most closely resembling “Community Feedback” of “the chosen ones”. See how that turned out. :smiley:

1 Like