I don’t follow any of the youtubes for this game, so if what you’re saying is true then those people who wanted all those vet nerfs are just parroting the youtubers? May I has link to these people for research?
1 Like
Ty. Appreciated : )
Why can’t vet have a normal tree like other classes its just beyond me.
6 Likes
+1
Don’t forget things like the +suppression talent node immediately after the +suppression stat node (at least you can choose the other talent there)
Seems to work for Psyker.
5 Likes
You’d think that a basic balancing measure would be to make all of the game’s talent trees equal in size.
4 Likes
My numbers are a bit different but the point still stands.
| Veteran | Ogryn | Psyker | Zealot | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Blitz | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Aura | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Ability | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Keystone | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Talent | 42 | 30 | 20 | 35 |
| Stats | 20 | 19 | 18 | 16 |
| Modifier | 25 | 19 | 30 | 18 |
| Total | 99 | 80 | 80 | 81 |
*nodes that directly affect or change the class ability, keystone or psyker blitz.
7 Likes
I was counting ability modifiers in the talent node count, for one thing. But either way, the disparity in total nodes is pretty apparent.
13 more nodes than the previous guy and that guy, the Zealot, arguably has the best tree in the game.
So much good stuff to choose from!
Veteran though? Not so much.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone even think demo team is worth a point nowadays?
Guess which class mains has been complaining about Veterans class and Veterans weapon being OP?
Hint: it’s in your post.
3 Likes
This is just an info dump, but it’s relevant
For the purposes of this table “Passive tax” refers to the number of passive nodes between each section.
Choice tax refers to the number of lateral points that are necessary because you want to “change” from left/middle/right to a different side of the tree.
Bolded categories are the worst/most expensive of the 4 classes:
| Veteran | Ogryn | Zealot | Psyker | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Passive Grenade Tax | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Passive ability Tax | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Passive aura tax | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Passive keystone tax | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Grenade choice tax | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Aura choice tax | 0-2 | 0 | 0-2 | 0 |
| Ability choice tax | 0-2 | 0 | 0-2 | 0 |
| Keystone choice tax | 0-2 | 0-2 | 0-2 | 0-1 |
| Total Tax | 5-11 | 5-7 | 4-10 | 5-6 |
| Minimum pts to get to keystone | 20 | 18 | 17 | 19 |
| Minimum pts keystone+ability subtalents | 26 | 23 | 20 | 21 |
| Maximum pts keystone+ability subtalents | 29 | 23 | 21 | 23 |
| Remaining Points to make the build yours | 1-4 | 7 | 9-10 | 7-9 |
| Pts needed to pay maximum taxes | 35 | 25 | 27 | 24 |
Quick analysis of veteran vs. the 2nd worst class in each category:
Veteran Tax potential is 1st, with zealot coming in 2nd place at 4-10… Zealot’s balance to this is the shortest route to the keystone of all classes at 17, and the lowest passive tax of all classes.
Veteran keystone minimum is 1st, with psyker coming in 2nd at 19… Psyker’s balance to this is the lowest point cost to fill out sub-talents for ability+keystone at 2-4 points per, in addition to the fewest “choice” taxes
In summary:
Veteran currently needs 8-11 more points to have the same degree of build variety that the others currently have.
12 Likes
Keystone modifiers should removed and already be a part of the Keystone.
1 Like
Hilarious.
Piles of hyperbole knocked down with a simple observation.
Not sure about this more general point. Modifiers can make builds with diversity and provide choice.
What I mean is some of the lacklustre keystone modifiers should be combined with the keystone itself (granted to a lesser extent.) as there are too many Nodes.
Yeah, a single zag going down the tree leaves you with a single or two points to put anywhere else when you unlock the full keystone (I went krakk, ammo, shout, tag keystone). Even going fully into a single tree leaves you with at most 5 points and that’s skipping out on fully upgrading the ult (middle left with 4 points). My basic builds with other classes net at least 7 points after filling the keystone. Combine or kick out a row or 2 and should be on par with other classes.
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You can still make usable builds for Auric, but woo boy does the tree feel so much worse now than it did before.
I don’t understand how FS can flop so hard on this. The biggest complaint of the previous tree was it takes too many points to get to the bottom of it. Their update for that was to make it take more points!?
It just blows my mind how out of touch the update to the tree is when compared to what player concerns were. Its like they fed data about previous node usage to an AI and asked it to create a tree that would have a high probability of all nodes being equally used amongst vet players, and completely ignored any sense of flow and feel the trees should have from a human interaction perspective.
Absurd.
7 Likes