Yes, making it easier and lower cost to jump back and forth between branches getting all the best value talents you can. Also getting 3 nodes of bonus stats for 1 talent point lmao. Am I really explaining how this adds to power creep?
You even acknowledged it before but said you don’t care cause it’s too far gone for you already I guess.
I really did want to leave this thread after the last comment so if you still somehow don’t understand what I’m saying please just pretend you do 
Considering that they did this for the Psyker’s 2nd rework:
I think we can expect a similar tree branching for the other classes when they decide to touch them up again.
yeah the plinko trees psyker and ogryn have are terrible and removing one of those this last update was great. anticipation is one of the game’s goated and unique survival talents and it could only be run off crit aura before, extremely limiting builds.
hopefully we can one day have the great middle nodes on ogryn without having to use the grenade box they refuse to make decent.
The possibility to switch from a blitz to any part of the tree is something that can be done without hurting any gameplay
But the initial suggestion of this thread (merging 3 nodes) is a big no
But still I would fear that they do something wrong with the only remaining class that I play
blitzes are more related to play style than balance, once more i dont want to be forced to have a blitz i dont play just to save points.
If you’re having trouble between choosing one of them and something else further down the line then that’s literally the point of the skill tree.
We all have the same amount of points to spend using the same options. You tailor to your preferences.
The recent change on Ogryn (moving the toughness boost) really upset my play style as it changed things hugely for me. I’ve lumped it though and will just sulk until it’s reverted 
But yeah the toughness boosts have a HUGE impact on play. On auric damnation with dense hordes anyway.
That’s my fear… considering how they succeeded to disgust me of the class that, at first, made me buy Darktide (veteran), I would be really anxious if they consider ANY change on zealot tree.
The talents tree was great… but since that, every change they did on them, I have disliked.
I really don’t get that criticism. Yeah Veteran in Volley Fire (Executioner Stance of old) was stronger, but he was also far worse outside of ult. It was literally garbage whenever ult ended and there was nothing to loop it on (scab stalkers and their ‘they don’t count as gun enemies’ nonsense). and there was no real gameplay outside of using guns that took advantage of that because 1.25s stamina regen delay was basically unplayable for anything else. Current Veteran and Zealot are way better than launch imo, there’s just a huge imbalance in node strength on Zealot where they went out of their way to nerf the middle line which feels bad.
Surely. That’s your opinion
But current veteran, is far worse than the veteran of patch 13 (so talent tree without keystones).
And by far, I preferred what we had (and even veteran before patch 13) instead of what we have actually.
They really try to make their keystones working… And more they try, more they lock the veteran gameplay in something bad, in my opinion.
When I play the Ogryn (it is rare, but it happens), I always pick one keystone.
When I play zealot, I would not envisage to play without any keystone.
But when I play Veteran… I currently don’t want to pick a keystone. Here, there’s a problem (and to avoid useless comments, let’s remind that I hate the veteran keystones and that I cannot play with them).
This class lacks an identity as Crayvun said. By not picking any keystone, all builds look the same… and update after update, these builds without keystone are less and less efficient/viable.
I am at a point that I have no desire to play the veteran… so close to the point where I would have more reasons to stop this game (cosmetics too expensive, few new content, only one archetype I like, no weapon balance toward the difficulty etc) than keep playing it.
Back to the topic… If they just permits us to change the branch after the blitz (and only this change) I would agree. I would still pick such nodes, but that would be fine for me as it would not impact me.
exactly my gripe… lol
This… is true. At least it should be an option.
1.25s stamina delay is literally unplayable and was so wretched when not carried by infinite volley fire they removed it in patch 14. this wasn’t an opinion but a reiterating of the facts that happened.
and again doing volley fire all game with 75% damage reduction was basically the only thing lost and not massively improved so if this was your opinion of unique vet gameplay alright
no, veteran is in a unique position where the bloated tree had a ton of amazing talents that lost extremely little when they added keystones. most of the other characters depend on the keystones to function because you can’t just grab so many free damage boosts for having a tree like veteran’s. zealot has to pick marty or judgement for a good 20-40% of the melee damage they could be doing. ogryn needs heavy hitter for 35%. psyker needs disrupt destiny or warp charges that directly counter the strength of having the best ult reset in the game otherwise.
this is even more true of other classes, like duelist/thy wrath be swift force a jinky into every zealot’s tree so they all bend the same by keystone. I can predict 25 talents that will be on every ogryn build. Psyker has literally ‘do you want soulblaze’ (left), ‘do you want to meme with blitz’ (middle) or ‘just function normally and have boring free damage’ (disrupt destiny). I can also tell you how about 23 of those points will drop on any build.
there’s also a lot of ludicrously powerful builds in keystones like passively reloading any of the power weapons or having one shots on almost every enemy type from marksmen focus with lucius or just breaking the autogun even further. blessed be the mind too small for doubt? the most reliable dueling sword one hit build on a crusher is in the middle and only needs 2 stacks iirc (the rest are all precog).
so for real how is having the biggest tree with the most access to damage nodes spread throughout supposed to actually be a bad thing. there’s far more build variety in veteran than ever before and they actually have more damage output than zealot. they just get punished by hitstuns for being at no toughness unlike zealot who literally escapes from the entire game unscathed.
The taxiest of tax points
Wow that’s dumb
I don’t understand your point here. I was not playing exec at patch 13.
Totally wrong
They nerfed all terminal nodes. Close quarters killzone was +30% close damages and has become +10%. 20% less is a extremely little reduction???
For the emperor was +20% melee and ranged damage. Now it is +10%
Marksman was +50% power. Now it is +20%.
Ok this is only these ending talents. But this has impacted by a lot your power if you don’t use keystones.
Hmmm… maybe you… not me.
I have builds on zealot that go by loner, others that go by benediction. The only uninteresting part for me in the middle. Beacon of purity / chorus is a way I never take. Chorus cause I don’t like stop playing, this is just boring. Beacon of purity cause, excepted unremitting (-20% sprint cost) everything else above it is totally useless.
But excepted this… I use all blitz, can combine left part with right part, or the contrary. I have builds that rely on critic and use martyrdom, or inexorable judgement etc.
Where I would agree is about the ability. I dislike chorus, and I think that stealth is good only for assassination especially with the nerf that removed 1 second of stealth (what is the incitation to take master-crafted shroudfield just to get 2 more seconds???). As a result 90% of my builds use fury the faithful (especially after the nerf…).
But, if I compare to when I was using veteran, there are really a lot of different configurations.
On my veteran, thing is abilities are all great now. So this one could change often, but most of the time I take VoC. However, bring it down, superior complex, fully loaded, precisions strikes are talents I rarely don’t pick. I would even say that in the melee part there are talents I pick 75% of the time (you have remaining points when you don’t pick keystones).
Listen. I will be honest. I feel that I will have to stop playing this game soon. Cause, and I repeat it, they have removed for me any fun I could have with the veteran. And I have now only the zealot that I like (I could also add that the lack of balance impacts also my interest in the game).
As I said numerous times, I hate veteran keystones. I cannot play with them. And more they tried to reinforce them, and more I have hated the veteran. Now, one of the funniest build on veteran has been gone (the ranged immune that was working with vanguard). Hopefully I can play it on zealot, but it will never be the same as a zealot is not the best at ranged.
So, once they will start to impact badly the zealot tree, I will have to stop the game as nothing that interests me will remain in this game.
I am happy for you that veteran is the class you love. This was the class that made me buy this game, and now I don’t like it at all.
Now, I hope that they deliver a new archetype with a ranged weapons gameplay, or that Dune awakening will be enough good to switch to an other game. Yes, few chances that Dune would be enough good to make me want playing it all days… but who knows? and anyways, I won’t force me to play a game where I don’t spend good time. And actually, only the zealot is something I love.
I said it also, it could be temporary… but actual veteran is not interesting for me. And all of this is due to keystones… and no, absolute no, I won’t play with these keystones. They are too badly designed.
If removing an awful node with a slightly less awful node (Vanguard to whatever the quick swap one) was all that it took to make you stop playing Veteran you never liked it in the first place.
Good… you have read 13 words… no read the others…
I have explained that it was not that… but the sum of changes since patch 13… read what I said about it…
close damage was also fixed to 12.5m instead of 8m so I would literally much rather have it as it is now. the real nerf Veteran got from that tree was that trench fighter losing 5% attack speed, and lol grenade tinkerer was a free thy wrath be swift minus speeding up - in every other way its improved. especially the global change of 1.25s stamina regen to 1s, unless you think using stamina actions every 1.25s and still interrupting the recovery by dodging in this game is survivable with how they cranked elite melee spawns. I had to bend every patch 13 tree to a stamina node.
and there were also massive power downs to other classes at the same time who didn’t get any additional ways to squeeze out power. ogryn’s rending talent lost 20% rending lol, bleed lost 2 stacks per heavy. psyker got barraged with so many nerfs just as quickly as they had ascended to the top of the damage output plane. veteran got off easy.
again this is certainly true of veteran with them having the widest tree in the game. except you disqualify yourself from having an opinion of this through
which is kinda ridiculous, this was true before the second tree streamline a little but not the case now. if you don’t want to explore all the builds in the RPG game, that’s fine. but I see a lot of criticisms around the board lately that are formed from not actually doing that. which is the exact opposite of those things needing to be reworked. if you don’t like them because of the value of the rest of veteran’s tree, I would view that as a positive. even the new psyker tree has literally no point not taking keystones. its something that you get only as veteran. there are also a lot of good builds incorporating those keystones, and the maintenance is honestly pretty low besides the annoyance of weapon specialists activation clauses.
but as someone who plays the entire game relatively evenly, I look at the vet tree as a very wide toolkit with far more possible gameplay than the rest.
it was done recently, and it impacted longshot volley also… and I have never liked this change. The changes fit your will… good. Not mine.
As I said, I always end with the same nodes.
This is not ridiculous. I tried them, I hate them. I like the ranged class, I don’t like what they have made with it. And more they change it, and less I like it. I cannot force me to love something that I think is the worst gameplay I could imagine?
Absolute no. I would even hate more that they reinforce them and nerf other parts of the tree…
I don’t want to be forced in a gameplay, I want to be able what I want as gameplay. Actually what the keystones offer to me is not something I want. And change after change, they try to reinforce the gameplay around keystones. And I don’t like their gameplay… so playing veteran is pointless. Changes after changes, the number of different gameplays I like is reduced.
That’s why I hope a new archetype that will handle also ranged combat. Cause the “veteran” is just a disappointment.
