Suggestion - Rework on Lv20 talent


Tbh, It was bad idea to copy-paste lv20 talent to every characters/careers.

There are several issues among these talents…

  1. no choice - we use only “kill for temp health” talent
    Because kill for temp health talent out-perform other 2 talents by far, there’s no reason to use other 2 talents.

  2. not unique

  3. “kill for temp health” talent is not suitable for tank/watch our back
    If I play ironbreaker with shield, I usually spam shield bash and push for CC, which result in no temp health from kill.
    If sienna and bh doing the kills, I usually watch our back, then I sometimes feel like I lose/sacrifice the chance to gain health.

Suggestion - rework lv20 talents
The talent can stay for some careers, but most should be replaced imo.
I will throw some idea.

A. Weapon specific talent
This type of talent might also solve the problem about halberd/volley crossbow/beam op.

Foot knight - ur timed push has more power with shield, can stagger even boss
Ranger - faster swing for warpick, maybe torn down charged attack damage?
Handmaiden - equip lance to make u move 5% faster
Shade - dual weapons deals 20% more damage but no headshot bonus(some enemy hard to hit head from behind)

B. talent to encourage teamwork rather than kill steal
pushing enemy attacking teammate costs no stamina
Heroic intervention - make talent version

Please feel free to add more.


Regrowth just needs to go from “temp hp on crit” to “1 green hp on melee hit”/essentially slow regen but higher long term reward for sticking to the higher risk of melee/not tied to F skill, bombs or ranged weapons.

This is a nice idea for Regrowth :o
And for the boss one, it needs more too, maybe something like Boss kill give health, ability charge and ammo…
Feels kinda strong tho, this one is hard to balance.
Maybe get rid of the On boss kill and find something else might be the best idea

They could just increase the spawn rate of bosses in missions, then health on boss death and temp health on crit would become more valuable.

Ranger, HM and shade??? The careers that get kills in their respective role? These careers benefit from this talent like any other…
The devs should give hp on kill to any characters baseline and make new lvl 20 to anyone since every build uses the same without any diversity.

im so glad im not the only one who feels this way :slight_smile:

its such a huge waste of character building potential! also i hate the idea of it anyway, who the hell wants to “temporarily” make their character stronger in an rpg that is essentially just an excuse to not design real survival class talents.

it makes weaker characters like kerillian able to absorb more dmg by killing more stuff… completely negating the effective usefullness of it that is needed by the tanks!

i “try” to play zealot but man… its in such a sorry state, the idea of taking damage to deal damage is great… but getting low amounts of temp health on kills that i cant get cos greedy teammates + the health on hit during ult that is so low when playing on champ+ compare to damage taken… just = a useless class that can barely handle himself.

and now we have to play with -40% damage, cleave and stagger on the next patch…

i think i might be done with this game…

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Giving Bloodlust to everyone baseline would break one of the points of these style of games (resource management), temp HP is in fact a lot better than raw regen based on RNG from core gameplay loop perspective since it (should) give you the HP buffer in the thick of it when it is required, but not devalue scarce recovery items/no recovery modifiers (from deeds).

I would argue that the recovery talents should be a starting choice, thus turned into “level 1” (or at least level 5 if they aint turned into their own starting category while also allowing some more "build defining stuff on level 20 as the 25 mostly do) to quickly introduce and n the concept for the initial character “rank up” period to new players, but thats not really the point here.

But everyone already using that talent only, so basically no choice and diversity at lvl20… So its already broken. It could be granted baseline and replaced with something not recovery based, maybe some role specific or idk…

Again, bigger issue is “temp hp on crit” is weaker than the temp hp on kill due to not being reliable and most stuff dying in 1-3 hits, a 100% melee only VT1 regrowth that gives true hp thus be pseudo regeneration would work as a actual alternative (not just due to class damage potential/options difference, but also playstyle preference) and boss hp regen is meh/really only comes into play on dedicated cc “tanks” in legend (for it id love if it cleared wounds too just like the “temp hp to real hp and wounds cleared on boss kill” talents do while redesigning/removing those too).
Making it baseline would also further push the “go for score” mentality since wasting stuff like trueflight and skull on mooks/hordes would be further incentivized in quick play.

I totally agree with you, what i said is an option/suggession. Most of the talent trees(and skills) could use a rework, but we need to wait for those…

While I agree on that there is an issue with the only real choice between the level 20 talents is by far most often Bloodlust, I’m definitely against talents that affect specific weapons (that includes the already in the game talent for IB that affects drakefire weapons specifically). Weapons need to be viable on their own, and if all weapons are viable on their own, giving access to talents that boost them further funnels the weapon choices for the different careers into a very narrow selection, restricting freedom on playstyle.

If they add Talent that buff weapon, they need to make sure every type of weapon is counted, with large condition (not just Axe deal more damage, but Slashing weapon deal more damage).
I would still be an obvious pick as you’d just go with whatever you’re using tho, not really a big deal as weapon are mostly tied to player liking.

About Bloodlust, I’d keep the actual Bloodlust, change Regrowth like said above (green health on hit), add a bit of cooldown to them, and change the boss one by the While holding grim type, because whatever you play, it’s also a talent you’d pick, even if you don’t plan to take grim, in quickplay you never know what you gonna fall on to.
So it wouldn’t be a shared talent, just the While holding grim portion would be shared.

I agree with the sentiment that level 20 talents should be redone, preferably career specific as well.

Nah, stagger is -50% :slight_smile:

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I can respect green life from killing bosses, but pure regrowth is too powerful.
What I like about temp health is that it promotes a kind of risk/reward evaluation.

If I’m black and white, it becomes safer more me to constantly engage in combat a little (keeping my temp health up) than to pull back entirely (letting my temp health drop). Furthermore, it forces me to think about my utility and priority differently: killing large groups means something, because it will help to keep me alive.

If I ever got pure life back, it would allow me to fall into a conservative pattern of play which would slow the game down. As is, when I am weakest, I am forced to play more aggressively if I want to survive. Mechanically, I love this.

Thats why i said 1 green hp on melee hits vs the 5 temp hp a kill. Risk melee and give up bomb/F skill kills (if the class has a lethal F) for slow buildup. Temp hp doesnt come into play on the rare raw boss situations, but patrols and especially hordes essentially guarantee the 1 hit to be “free hp” due to the safe kill power of range (for which everyone has a decent option).

Unless I’m very very wrong, it’s 2 hps.

If so, then make it 0.4 or 0.5 hp a hit, point is a lot lower stead hp regen for melee vs temp hp on kill for swarm fight/nuke play.