Hi all. Ogryn Gunner spends too much ammunition, this makes this build weak. Here’s my idea on how to do it better.
Replace Keystone Burst Limiter Override with a new Bullet of Wrath - for every 100 toughness points lost, 1% of the ammo is restored for each character in the coherency radius.
Change talent Pacemake - Hitting 5 or more Enemies with a single Attack grants +25% reload speed for 5s.
New version of Pacemaker - dealing damage with a heavy attack increases reload speed by 5% for 5 seconds. Stacks 5 times.
These talents will make all of Ogryn’s ranged weapons playable. Now the problem is the lack of ammunition, the ogin takes all the ammo in the location, leaving all players without ammo, while the impact from the ogryn’s weapon is incomparably lower than from a revolver, plasma and any other more accurate weapon. Ogryn needs the ability to generate ammunition themselves while acting as a tank. Also, the new reload talent will make the special attack of all Ogryn ranged weapons useful.
I don’t really get why people jump straight to a complete rework for BLO. Seems perfectly salvageable with simple number buffs to me. Like 10% base chance. Maximum firepower and good shootin seem fine as is. More BLO now takes it to 15% chance. Then maybe add another final subnode that is mutually exclusive with MBLO that gives a guaranteed BLO proc every 15 melee kills or something for single/low mag weapons. Simple as.
The best way is to have a Vet buddy run with the Survivalist Aura. All 3 of my Vet builds have Survivalist, so my mates and I play entire matches without ever picking up ammo.
I would like the BLO = crits to be changed to something more consistent as well. Not sure what exactly, maybe after firing a BLO shot you get a higher crit rate for a bit, but it doesn’t ineract well with the crit rate math.
You’re right it doesn’t since they’re effectively separate rolls but Ogryn ranged weapon crit chance is so low at base I think it doesn’t really matter. 15% crit chance from MBLO even assuming base crit chance was 0 would do plenty for charmed reload which is the only real crit synergy to begin with.
Paired with my idea for an additional final node where you can build a guaranteed BLO from melee kills and I think kickback, GG and Rumbler wouldn’t mind the guaranteed crit on first shot after swap either to help with breakpoints.
Also a problem, I don’t remember the talent, but its on the way to the BLO keystone which gives base crit rate per kill up to 8%, which is something that wouldn’t synergize well with it.
I do love this idea however, that sounds cool.
Fleccette Ripper Guns have stupid high damage (especially against bosses) when paired with BPB even if you have to sacrifice AP power for it (now you can just bring funny lol shovel).
Oh yeah I did forget about that one. Yeah that is kinda an anti synergy. Hmmmm not really sure what you’d replace the BLO crit node with though. Maybe just a generic damage increase? That’s kinda dull though.
Edit: Just mathed it out and they don’t stack THAT bad. 13% crit chance from base crit + talent and 15% crit chance from BLO still gives an effective crit chance of 26%. You only lose about 2% crit chance from them being rolled separately. I don’t think it’d be an issue the way I originally suggested in consideration of that.
Further edit: Mathed it out for worst case scenario which is adding a crit chance perk to the mix as well as Psyker crit chance aura. Now it’s 23% normal crit chance and 15% BLO proc. Now your effective crit chance is 34.5% So you’re losing out on 3.5% crit chance from them being rolled separately compared to additive. Honestly still no big deal and you’d rather have the 15% from BLO than not for one talent point.
I’m happy that finally there is someone that brings attention to how bad the gunlugger tree actually is.
It actually suffers from many problems:
First PBB, while being a very powerful ultimate, it’s incredibly ammo inefficient. I understand the need to limit it’s usage in some other ways other than cooldown since otherwise gunluggers will be constantly shooting everything with it but this brings to the second point.
Choosing PBB locks you out from +20% heavy melee damage. Again, I understand, if you want to have a focus on ranged damage balance suggests that you need to give up in your melee power, too bad that evry ogryn weapon, except the bull butcher, heavily relies on heavy attacks to be effective. This coupled with the scarce use of the ability makes the gunlugger very mediocre during most of the run with bursts of excellence when he uses PBB, and this makes him a less reliable teammate.
Bad synergy with anything else other than stubbers (and maybe ripper gun). This has been pointed out many times but, with exception of +25% ammo reserve talent, everything else is really underwhelming. Especially the keystones.
Possible solution for improvement:
Adding an ability modifier parallel to Mobile Emplacement: 25% chance to trigger lucky bullet during PBB but your ability duration is reduced by 33%.
Replace massacre with something else: as it is now it’s already a waste of perk point, with the changes proposed it would be redundant.
Possible substitutions:
strong grip: x% spread and recoil reduction
expert handler: x% increase in gun effective range.
This would go a long way in making the gunlugger tree more attractive and more friendly to any kind of ranged weapon.
Actually, based on the informations in this post: Steam Community :: Guide :: Weapon Perks - Priorities, mechanics, and why you shouldn't just stick crit on it Ogryn has only 2.5% crit chance so base+talent amount to 10,5%, also stubbers have a -2% crit chance bringing the dotal down to 8,5%. Considering that crits on all Ogryn weapons are not that impressive and the synergies are scarce, even with the buff proposed by you , i would find all the tree still not worthwile.
Also, for those who are interested, I advise to watch this short video about BLO, which explains very clearly how bad and why BLO is bad:
I like the idea of making it depend on melee attacks.
I would have just increased the chance over time when it’s not happening, so a single shot weapon could reach an extra 20% or so, but making it more interactive sounds good.
If we have 1 Talent to cater low mag size weapons, the exlusive alternative (instead of MBLO) could increase the chance for magazine% fired, so the closer you get to bottoming out, the higher the chance of getting an extra free bullet. If the average over an entire magazine to get a lucky bullet rises by maybe 4%, that’d be good enough for me.
I also like the idea of granting extra lucky bullet chance directly after using an Active.
And if it somehow improved the often pitiful crit payout on ogryn guns, why not.
Overall, I still use lucky bullet on my gun lugger because every bit of ammo counts, but it doesn’t feel good. There’s no indicator it procced, besides staring at the ammo counter, it’s individually inconsequental, and there’s little interaction with other parts of his kit.
