Question is self explanatory, but it could be great to have that long list appears somewhere where it is easy to track.
They addressed it way back. At that point they said that they wouldn’t. Might have been a reference to achievement hunters and creating frustration but I may confuse it with a reply from a different dev on same issue.
As far as I remember, they said that they didn’t ultimately decide. One reason as you wrote are achievement hunters. Because sure as hell, you would majorly annoy some of them by introducing new achievements this late in the game cycle. We have seen something like this recently with L4D. For Vermintide 1 it was less an issue as each DLC brought new achievements anyway, so Arrogance Lost was similar in that respective. But it is also true that these achievements are far harder to get with a smaller population.
Personally, I don’t think that making Okri’s challenges into achievements is a good idea. At least not all of them. There are several challenges which would cause more of an aversion for the game instead of a draw-in. I am mainly thinking about the ultra grindy stuff like the 100 Champion+ games for EACH career or the 500 deeds. There will be people who will not buy the game because of this. And this is in the end the calculation Fatshark has to make. Does the effort and result of introducing new achievement come out higher than the potential risk of losing customers over it and the cost of work? Personally, it is also kinda annoying when you see that each new DLC brings in new achievements and losing completion again (looking at you 100 % Orange Juice). People will also consider it scummy that you have to pay money again to be able to complete the achievements once more.
For those who say that it is something to work towards, you still have the in-game challenges which are also better sorted than one long list.
Did you really see a ruckus around achievements hunting ? Because I did not, even with Left 4 Dead. So sounds like a non issue to me.
(Also never saw someone considering an achievement scummy because it is behind a dlc, cf. mostly all assassin’s creed for example)
Not counting that SAM does exist if you want to get your steam achievement easily anyway.
If you talk with people in-game? Yea, it caused a ruckus. Mainly because most of them were tied to survival mode and years later. In the forum it went under the pithell fire of people being upset that the game got updated AT ALL.
That is one of the most often mentioned complains. I’m surprised it never crossed your way.
If you are using SAM, you are not an achievement hunter. It is not a “solution” for those people actually caring about achievements as personal value.
Again. I’m sorry to say that I didn’t meet any of thoses person and I’m in a lot of ‘achievement hunting groups’, so if you could link me that pitfire or a ruckus that apparently existed for L4D, I could get some interesting insight to have this discussion.
Then why bother at all?
I did my VT1 achievements and now someone would just cheat it as simple as a snap of a fingers?
Should I do it for my self-satisfaction? Then why bother with steam achievements at all?
Well, I don’t use it myself but it exist for a long time now. People can do what they want if they see value in it, not that I care anyway.
That’s not the point of the discussion though, I do like the interface to track them and numerous website do track thoses kind of achievements to provide a manageable list that I can consult outside the game.
It’s easy to do, so why not doing it.
The scummy part I can’t verified. I probably mixed that one up. So a mistake on my part. While I have seen it, it isn’t mentioned often.
But if you are in a lot of achievement hunting groups and you never met annoyance by games introducing new achievements than I’m at loss of words.
Urgh, it is a nghtmare searching for the threads in the L4D2 Forum. There are 400 pages concerning Achievement threads. And searching isn’t made easier by the fact that Gabe Newell shot a Gnome into space.
I don’t see the point of achievements hunting if you’re annoyed by achievements being added. It’s like the main reason to play a game for thoses people. (It’s like saying that diablo 3 fans will be annoyed by new stuff coming out for their game).
So yeah I never actually seen any complain about that.
I’m not the only one to ask and a quick google search will point you that the request for steam achievements comes back regularly with every big release.
I often see complains though for challenges that are not obtainable anymore, and/or completable without having god of luck at your side. But that’s entirely another matter.
Because some people like the idea of being done with something. If you like a game you may prefer it to get new stuff to do but less if it something of the past which you don’t planned to play anymore.
I do not question that there are people asking for this repeatedly. However, I personally, don’t see the need or the benefit of adding more Steam Achievements if we have Okri’s challenges already other than some minor QoL of tracking them outside of the game which is a very niche application.
You asked the developers a question and I gave my personal opinion on the topic as I see it. They can care for that or not. Not my call. What I can say is that if I would be a new customer and all Okri’s challenges would be Steam Achievements as of now, then I would not buy the game because it would elevate to more than 700 hours of playtime.
So you tell me, that, when you buy a game, you’re looking at the achievement list, for all games you bought on steam ? (Without being able to really judge the time it would take as you’re not playing it yet)
I mean, why not, as a completionist when it comes to getting all the cosmetic stuff as well, I can understand that.
You further tell me that it’s okay to have that long list inside the game but not outside for some reason.
Here, I have some trouble understanding that.
Do I understand you correctly ? Or did you only mean you were not interested if it was added and that’s all.
https://completionist.me/ https://truesteamachievements.com/ https://www.exophase.com/ https://www.achievementstats.com/ http://astats.astats.nl/astats/index.php https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gamerguide.android.trackerforsteamachivements&hl=en_US&gl=US https://metagamerscore.com/
I mean, it’s okay to not use thoses sort of tools, but let’s not say it’s of niche use either.
I guess my question would be why? Its already relatively simple to track them with okris challenges and i personally agree with adelion that some people would be annoyed by “completed challenges” being suddenly undone.
Yea, I do that. Mainly checking on broken achievements and also why some of them have very low completion numbers. But considering the amount of available games, it is a deciding factor for me. Time to complete can be “found” by sites like Astats or Howlongtobeat (although my completion times usually are longer than that).
I did not say that it is not okay to add a long list outside. I just mean that the actual part of the playership interested in a trackable outside list (not the achievements per se) percentage-wise is not that large. If that makes sense.
Depends on how you define niche. In absolute numbers? There is a considerable amount of people. Percentage-wise per game? It would say it is a niche application.
As for the last information we got and at least one person speaking of scummy practices:
- It’s really easy to add. (confirmed by Hedge on the matter months ago).
- Currently, it does advertise the game passively on numerous tracking websites (cf. links in my previous post).
- Steam API does make it easy to organize them way more easily than the Vermintide API that does not exist.
- Does not prevent or change anything that you’re already doing with the game (as thoses achievements does exist in game).
- Should not be too long to add and therefore would not be an issue (as adding Steam shop for V2 was not that long either).
- Annoyed players have options to make them appear as complete if they need.
- Steam achievers (thoses who use thoses websites, and others) will be pleased.
So were dedicated servers apparently easy to add but yeah I can see some positives if you really are using some outside apis.
Personally I see that as wasted dev time but I’m also not too hard on doing achievement’s so I drop it at that.
No I mean, they’re easy to add because they already added them (there are already some steam achievement). With the Okri’s book already done, there are indeed, easy to track in order to add them to steam.
Dedicated servers, they did face issues, and communicated with us that they’re stuck on thoses issues, and that they can’t allow more resources than needed for the little benefit it would bring to the game. (that’s understandable, even if you disagree that it would have little benefit)