Spear & shield visibility issue

I have been using shields on a few characters, and though I usually move away from them, I still think they have a place and are cool enough to use in certain builds. I just prefer not to on anything other than grail knight so far.

Now I noticed spear & shield for kerillian, so I was gonna try this for the handmaiden. After completing the needed quests and crafting it I played a few missions and I have just one big issue with it. It seems to have a much larger visibility issue (specially when blocking) compared to other shields. Maybe it’s simply in my mind, but compared to GK his sword and shield, this spear and shield really takes up a huge part of the screen.

The grail knight keeps his shield lower, that way if you look down a little bit you can still see the whole screen and know how to act accordingly. spear and shield is much higher up, and even though it is more to the left so it leaves a larger gap on the right, this would have you spin from left to right to actually see what is happening and make it a huge liability.

When pushing I would love to see what the results of the push are so I can safely follow up with attacks. Now I have to first look around to make sure it is safe and the angle didnt miss a unit, wasting valuable time in which rats can recover from the bash. It is a very annoying thing, making the spear and shield a lot less useful while it fits pretty well with some of handmaiden her talents and perks.

Just my 2 cents.

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I actually like the fact, that it obsctructs the vision quite heavily. That makes it very immersive and there is a “thrill” to letting your block go, since you’re not really sure if it’s safe.
I like to use shields on any character. On the dwarf it’s even more “fun”, since you are so small and can’t see a lot anyway. Holding your shield up makes you see very little, but u can “listen” if you pay attention.
Also there is some balance to the vision available. Handmaiden is super-mobile, super tanky (with spear and shield) and a very stron support character. I think it would make her not boring, but less exciting to play, if she had full vision while blocking.
That’s a big plus, balance-wise, for the spear without a shield. You can block very well (good arc) and have good vision. Giving full vision to spear and shield would take that advantage away.

Some things just don’t usually feel good in games, even when they are “immersive.” I agree that the screen space for shields should be cleaned up a bit, or you could even allow the player to click an “immersive” option (aka, fill the screen with your shield more for players like @justAxL ). In games like Rust, for PvP balance, they make super effective Helmets obscure the player’s vision significantly. If you want to play Vermintide without being able to see 90% of your screen, and looking through the holes in your helmet, and wiping away the blood and warpfire and beastman spit…go ahead! But please don’t force me to participate if I don’t want to :sweat_smile:

Edit: Additionally, for balance concerns, shield users already suffer movement penalties, dodge penalties, severe lack of DPS, etc. Vision obstruction doesn’t seem necessary to pile on, especially in game where game-sense/visibility of teammates and disabler threats is such a critical issue. Perhaps that aspect is more subjective, but the DPS and mobility hinderances are factual.

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the dwarf though has quite the sturdiness he needs to make that not so awkward at all with all the damage reductions he gets. The brittle elf though will go crying to the floor when 2 normal mobs hit you. The stamina regen offsets this for the handmaiden, and mobility, but when the stamina screws you when using a shield it is kind of a moot point if you ask me :smiley:

To each their own though.

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Well, aside from the other points I mentioned, the dwarf is also significantly shorter, which even compounds the vision and headshots issues further :stuck_out_tongue: While that isn’t the topic of this thread, it is another related example in terms of concept and “balance” here.

My position isn’t that we should make all the shield users the same as far as gameplay and balance go, as you can use shields on more than just Ironbreaker and Handmaiden. All the Krubers, all the Dwarfs except Slayer, etc. Those less tanky careers don’t even see the passive damage reductions/health increase compensations that you’re mentioning, and have to dig into their DPS and ranged sustain talents to do so.

To clarify my overall point, I think Fatshark has made shields very balanced in their current state with their roles and tradeoffs (low mobility & low DPS VS strong supportive tool that scales with team coordination), and that the vision-loss for their users is currently excessive. One fix would be a simple menu option to manually move/lower the shield in the default and swinging states, etc. Much like an FOV slider, it would have a minimum and maximum range, within reason.

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I dislike the option of being able to change the view-obstruction and I think, yes you should be forced into having little overview with shields. Being the one “dumb guy” who likes to play immersed and therefore is less efficient would be a bad move.
Also the damage with spear and shield is exceptional.

@miniL If you run out of stamina on handmaiden you just use your carrer skill. I feel like she is the strongest class for kiting waves indefinetly.

The issue isnt the stamina, not even remotely, it is more the push vs enemy attack speed. So you can still get hit while you just pushed a row of enemies back with the shield bash, and charge up your swipe attack. Now this wouldn’t be an issue if you could actually properly see that not every mob got pushed back.

Though this may be partially an issue with the servers just being wonky as hell since the update, but I have had no issues like that on other characters. And the thing is that my handmaiden is even build to stagger elites on shield bash/push. This basically means I should have a second to attack without getting hit from the front.

The fact that you still get hit is super weird, and therefor the vision has started to annoy me. I have never had this issue on any shielded character so far, and I used the others except for hammer/shield & mace/shield.

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