This isn’t game-breaking, but it’s sure keeping me from giving HM’s shield and spear a fair shake. Compare Kruber’s shield to Kerrilian’s – the red arrows show where the aiming reticle sits on both screens:
Maybe it doesn’t bother others as much, but I feel like I’m running around blind. Since illusions haven’t been released (AFAIK) for the WoM weapons I’d humbly request some attention to this – even one option with a comparable view to Kruber’s would make a huge difference.
Edit - Drakonhammer posted some excellent examples from other WHF games that could be major, thematically consistent improvements.
I feel like it’s actually quite satisfying for when I’m fighting; makes me feel like I have a proper shield instead of a tiny little buckler. You could also count it as a “realistic downside” to the shield, but the shields already have enough downsides.
Yeah, I can’t disagree that it restricts vision heavily and, if it’s a problem for others, I don’t think most people would have a problem with it being adjusted a bit to open up your field of view. I wouldn’t mind, for sure, but I also don’t mind it the way it is right now.
Agreed on the visibility problem. It either needs a downward curve at the top or an indent on the right hand side.
It’s unfortunately kinda an innate design disadvantage of the standard high elf kite shield, Kruber’s smaller heater shield has a nice downward curve in the middle for visibility. Kerillian can’t exactly hold hers much lower without it touching the floor (and, realistically, being off balance) either.
If Kerillian were a dark elf we wouldn’t have this problem as there’d be the spear rest indented on the right hand side…
For the high elves (like Handmaiden represents), their designs are mostly like the in game one. I did find these designs (from warhammer online) however, idk how canon or not GW considers them today:
And this one with the downward curve along the top.
These (or rather, shields with these kinds of shapes) would work as potential skins at least, and they’d solve the visibility problem.
Personally I’d love one with a spear indent at least, it’d be unique and free up the middle of the screen. The downward curve’s more practical overall though, perhaps a combination of both.
A simple lance rest would indeed do a lot of the visibility behind the shield. I’m slightly reluctant to tying it to certain Illusions, as in my mind cosmetics shouldn’t give mechanical advantages (which visibility is). It isn’t unprecedented though, as already in VT1 some shields were derided for having awful visibility. Another possibility would be to lower the shield slightly, or move it slightly to the left.
As to the difficulty the reduced visibility brings: I noticed that while approaching enemies with the Elf’s shield raised, I couldn’t see the enemies and thus judge the distance to them at all - which makes trying to push them, attacking and even just opening one’s defense almost completely luck-based.
I’ve been raising this issue since the first beta. This weapon was the absolute least fun weapon ever put in the game, IMHO, thanks to how bad the visibility is.
And I really want to like it, because I felt straight out of 300 doing the push-attack stabs into hordes. XD
Don’t some of Kruber’s shield skins do that already? I’m drawing a blank right now.
If not then yeah, make the lance rest baseline.
An indented curve along the upper rim would remain the most practical though, a spear rest only improves visibility in the centre of the screen, but not vs the enemies on your left hiding behind the rim of the shield (if you’re fighting a horde anyway).
Haha yeah it’s like HM is cosplaying as a one woman high elf spearwall while the rest of the 5 look on in confusion and/or mild horror.
What about just providing a transparency option/slider for your guard in the menu or something you can toggle in the inventory? The people that like it the way it is can continue to have their vision obscured, while others can forgo some of their immersion for clarity. It doesn’t have to apply just to shields, either - if other weapons are distracting when in view for some players, it could be useful in that regard as well.
Options are always good. I do hope they provide a compromise.
I think this sounds great. Again, I’m rather a fan of the way it is now, but that’s because I’m super obsessive about making it feel a little more real. If a Ratling-Gunner is slinging shot down a corridor, I’m sure as heck not sticking my head out.
All IMHO
EDIT: A side thought popped into my mind: if the transparency slider went properly to 100%, it would be so funny to right-click-to-block and, the moment you do, your characters arms/weapons just vanish from view. Hah!
While I did say I don’t want cosmetics to give any mechanical benefits, graphical settings affecting game difficulty (beyond making the game play smoother, which is pretty much the reason for lower settings) is kind of even worse for me. In this case, there would be no reason whatsoever to leave that option to the “realistic” setting - more visibility is always an advantage.
That’s not to say I disagree with the general idea - having more things be optional is indeed a good thing, as people generally like different things (see many old comments about zoom on ranged weapons, for example). I just like the idea of tying it to a game option (and one that’s pretty directly affecting difficulty) even less than I like the idea of tying it to cosmetics (i. e. weapon illusions, in this case).
I think just having her block position be a little lower and off-set to the left would be the best option here. I know she’s supposed to be ducking behind it, and it’s realistic, but gameplay needs to come before realism, and being as it is leads to absurd tactics like aiming your view really low to see over it, which is even more immersion-breaking, IMO.
And let’s be honest; this weapon is not that powerful. A reasonable QoL change isn’t going to break the game.
I actually love the current iteration, I feel like I’m actually hiding behind a substantial shield and have to peer around it to see. Makes fighting that much more intense when I have to keep track of where enemies are and their direction of travel… and it means relying on the sound more, which is a really fun thing if you have surround sound headphones.
With that said, fair points about it being notably less visibility than you get with kruber shields. It is also a lot more mobile than krubers… tradeoffs I suppose?
It really sucks too, because Spear & Shield were one of scratch that, THE new weapon I was most excited for, so to see it not only being visually cluttering, but also the weapon animations just being lifted from the regular spear without any shield bashes (at least, that’s what I recall it being from the beta) is a bit meh.
Sure, and if you enjoy that aspect of this particular skin that’s fantastic. For me, actually being able to keep the shield up and be a damage soak / nanny (highest possible block angle and cost reduction) is fun, especially with the new stagger mechanics allowing you to fling swarms off your teammates. That experience is totally unenjoyable for me with this obstruction. It’s a cosmetic choice that’s having a presumably unintended impact on gameplay. I’d just like it if even one cosmetic of any rarity opened up the view.
Bardin shield isnt much better in terms of visibility, but he pushes the shield to the left, giving him clear sight for a good amount of time. Kerillian just pushes her shield outwards, so it stays in the FoV all the time. I feel like all they have to do is make Kerillian push her shield to the side like Bardin and Markus do, instead of outward.
That, or change the shield model. Im cool with that aswell. But its probably more work.
For what it’s worth – I’m not suggesting Kruber’s are all perfect either, just that options matter. For example, another problem is that the only available mace + shield currently available in weaves is even worse, with the exception of better push / attack animations that others have mentioned:
Compared to the shield of his in my original post it’s a night-and-day difference. There were some good suggestions earlier in the thread about adding a lance rest to open Kerillian’s field of view, but I hope this highlights why that in and of itself won’t accomplish much.
When You block you position the shield towards the attack. Which is normally in front or outside body on the side of the shield.
This is why one of the most effective attack patterns is to come inside body at the head and then outside body at the right leg while rotating clockwise and jamming your shield into the elbow of the sword arm of your opponent to prevent their action. Right handed vs. Right hander shield and sword.
Your visibility is barely obscured by the shield, its your helmet that is in the way.
I accept the shield visibility mainly because if we want to get realistic, our tanky heroes had better be wearing a helmet to prevent a loose blow from sneaking in and downing them. Helmet peripheral visibility sucks.
The tactics you described are far outside this game’s mechanics. Just because, in historical combat, there’d be a helmet obscuring vision instead doesn’t mean something else should in its place. Though, I’m pretty certain you’re not actually suggesting this is a net positive.
While I haven’t heard anyone clamoring for “helmet-view,” there’s plenty of ongoing interest in 3rd person view mods to be sanctioned. Moreover, this is definitely not the only thread noting that shields could benefit from a general overhaul – especially with 2.0 shaking the game up. Below is a broader discussion of gameplay (such as it is) with shields. Good suggestions beyond my personal “All I want is to see rats so I can bop them” venting:
This weapon was the absolute least fun weapon ever put in the game, IMHO, thanks to how bad the visibility is.