[Improve] Shields

The Shields discussion, what do they need? Or do they need?

Shields:

Originally someone elses idea… but they don’t have a NAME to reference, fun way to make these defensive weapons more aggressive and versatile in a melee mashing game.

Bastion of Brettonia reworked to shield blocks ignore push all ranged push back at no stamina cost, to include rattling gunners.

Variety, all Kruber’s are now Bretonnian whether they embrace the French or not!

Slayer Shield: Slayer can now equip shields!

-On first swing he throws both shield and weapon like Cpt America! Then uses his fists!
-If he tries to block with a shield his Slayer instinct burns the shield from his hands and he instantly dies

This one is just for fun please don’t take seriously

7 Likes

this is already a function of the Bretonnian shield so it shouldn’t be hard to slap it onto the others

on the other hand it’s more than likely intended to be unique to the Bs&s so dunno, doesn’t make much difference to me personally either way

I do like the idea, it makes sense for a shield to have that functionality, main concern is it may end up being impractical and gimmicky in-game

2 Likes

The block fire is just tied to GK actually, functions with any shield atm but since B. S/S is only GK i could see why it seems to be tied to b s/s

3 Likes

oh yeah my bad

I forget these things because I don’t use shields much :sweat_smile:

I wager they’ll keep that a GK thing since he has no ranged solution to warpfire unlike the other kruber’s, that was the reason for its inclusion in the first place iirc

1 Like

My idea:

  • Sword & Shield should obtain 180° push/block angle;
  • Mace/Hammer & Shield should obtain a bash fast as the other shields’ one (but this an acknowledged bug, so let’s wait);
  • Every shield should block fire. Shields already have a precise niche… and it’s sad how easily one single Flame Rat can break it (sure, in this case we should rework GK’s Bastion of Bretonnia);
  • Every shield: Gatling Rat can’t push you away. It’s very weird/frustrating seeing a big armoured and shielded guy (our Krub or Bardin) blown away by some bullets… moreover, more or less like above, this damages Shields’ niche. I mean: their goal should be maintain the first line.

Now… last two points are changes to test and see if they would be good ones… but the first two, and sorry for the arrogance, should be applied asap.

2 Likes

I think they’re mostly in a good spot. Mace and Shield is basically a DPS Weapon now, and is easily picked over any other Shield Weapon imo.

But there’s way more things they can’t do than all of the CC makes up for. So they should be buffed in different ways, imo. Attack Speed is the best place to start.

It would be nice for the others to gain MORE OF a niche.

  • Empire MnS: Elite damage, Horde CC with Lights
  • Empire SnS: Elite Cleave on Lights, (best Horde Clear)
  • Bret SnS: Elite Damage, Boss damage?
  • 1H AnS: Elite damage, Horde CC, Boss damage (it has low Horde damage)

Sometimes the first Light attacks are really slow though. This along with their mobility makes them a bit frustrating at times. There was a point where I was running SS and AS with them, because of this.

E.g. M+S has slower Light attacks than a 2 Hander.

Bosses/Lords:

On Bosses they’re pretty much useless for anything other than surviving. This isn’t a problem for Boss Spawns (because you can CC Horde), but for Lords it’s too much of a damage loss (e.g. Nurgloth wipe number 100 where we have FK and IB both with Shield Weapons).

My old suggestion to fix this was giving SnS Heavy stab a bleed, which takes a while before it starts ticking, but hits quite high. This stops it deleting Elites, but gives it some damage at all VS lords and Monsters.

Axe and Shield, and Horde Clearing ranged with Shields:
IB usually uses Flamethrower, Drake Guns or Shotgun to make up for low Horde clear, but that’s completely the opposite of what he’s using the Shield for. Obviously you Shield and frontline when the Horde is Elite dense, but it’s just a weird contradiction I’ve noticed, that you take a Melee Weapon that’s good at CCing Hordes, and then instead of using it, you spam with Ranged.

The same applies to Kruber with Shotgun.

My preferences:

My least favourite Shield Weapon is Bretonian SnS, because of the move set. I like he overhead Heavy, but the Lights don’t make a lot of sense to me. I want to be able to deal decent damage to Hordes. The first Light after the slam is waaaay too slow, and it’s followed up by an overhead single target attack, which means it’s less safe.

MnS has been my favourite Shield Weapon since before any buffs, so I tend to use that.

Spear and Shield:
It’s great. HM is pretty much my main, so I use this a lot. It’s good for Elite damage, Horde control and mobility.

It’s weird, because it’s more of a DPS Weapon than a tanking Weapon.

The biggest downside is trying to frontline an Elite dense Horde and all you can really do is Push, because you don’t have the Slam and the H1 (Sweep), stops on the first Elite.

Just a little aside; I really hope their plan with Spear and Shield wasn’t to have you stack BCR and Ult into Hordes, because that would just be silly.

Yah the rattling push back is … funny at time. Jumped on one while blocking and went up onto some ridges in convo finale

I like these two.

How about make it works similar with Bretonnian Longsowrd’s reposte? But it works on both lights and heavies.

I actually find this humorous at times and use it to do silly things. In fairness, those are some big warpstone bullets and they send a ton of them at you at high velocities. It’s probably not too unrealistic to feel a little bit of a kick when those things hit you. I get your point on front line though.

I think for me I just like games to retain a certain element of quirkiness, hence the appeal of knockback on bullets. At least it isn’t like the Banner Boiz back from Winds of Magic beta. That was pinball mania.

3 Likes

I really think shields are fine at the moment, with the possibly exception of Bret SnS which, as we discussed before could really do to not be class locked, and could possibly use a little boost to its horde clear ability. It’s already got linesman, but if l1 was a more horizontal angle I think it would help out out a bunch since light -> heavy -> light is already a pretty good combo for CC, with a better angle for l1 it would do passable horde clear as well.

4 Likes

I do like the idea of buffing their utility as their niche. So I would like to see the Gatling gunner buff but also it would make sense for them to act as cover against gunner bullets. As in allies behind them don’t get hit as well.

Also i think i was one of the people who suggested that shields retain some stam while light attacking but i personally don’t think that would help them on cata where they are used for their otherwise excessive stagger. And i feel it would turn them into a braindead noobtrap weapon that doesn’t teach new players how to really play.

1 Like

I dont think the damage or cleave of any shield weapon should be buffed in any way. eS&S, M&S, and elgi Shield do rather well damage wise. Especially with Krubers toys you need to be especially picky about buffs. He is already able to two hit cata SVs with Mace and Shield.

The Bretonnian Board is a complete disaster, mainly because of the GK restriction. The only thing its good for is bashing, which is the sad state the other Kruber Shields got pulled out of.

If one wants more damage and appropriate shove strength, Opportunist on most weapons will achieve exactly that. Krubers 2h Hammer and 1h Mace already have a tough enough time to compete with cleave/damage, or shield weapons.

The “everyone needs BoB for shields” Idea is much older than BoB. I dont think it would be doing any good. Everyone but Mr. BoB has access to a ranged weapon and a lot of careers to gap closer, or invis. Warpfire needs to come rather close before it does anything. Taking away the urgency for Shield players to take out Warpfire just seems to bolster a lazy playstyle. The “advance into rattling fire” might be okay, but only if the stamina cost for advancing into the gunner would be increased and movement speed reduced.
I really dont like the Idea of Shields just slowly turning into an ignore half the specials kind of deal. They already offer a quite fair balance of damage and defense.

1 Like

Honestly all I want out of a shield is just that. To actually block attacks. Feels jank blocking a Stormvermin heavy attack only for your buddy behind you to get slaughtered.

5 Likes

All Shields

  • 10% less movement slowdown on light attacks. Weapons like the Flail have comparable stagger for Cata and yet have superior mobility (1.15 dodge range and 4 dodges).
  • Enemy attacks no longer cleave through player shields.

Sword & Shield

  • H3 (Sweep) – Seems to have decent stagger cleave and cleaves shields decently, but spamming lights and pushes seems safer. Shield cleave could be increased. Movement could be increased so that L1 > H3 is used for kiting.
  • L3 – Doesn’t get Linesmen but gets a better angle for headshots. Slower than L1, L2 according to Armoury. Small attack speed increase (10% should still be slower than L1 & L2).
  • Give it the same headshot boost the 1h Sword received.

Mace & Shield

  • Polish the animation transition of push attack > L3.
  • Otherwise fine from what I can tell.

Bretonnian Sword and Shield

  • Increase range to be more than the Sword & Shield’s (currently same, push attack is less)
  • H1 (Overhead) – Attack speed increase (7% would match it with the Longsword’s heavies).
  • L1 – Make it like Longsword’s 1st light. Currently does less dmg to single infantry targets than L3 (light bash) which is bizarre.

I like that the Bret S&S has access to an immediate single target dps attack (H1) which is unique among shields, but it’s too slow in practice on GK, making it a lot riskier than just doing push attack > H3 (Stab), which S&S does already while also having better horde clear and safety from the shield bash being H1.

4 Likes

I think both L1 of Bretonnian Longsword and Bretonnian Longsword + Shield’s swing angle should be start from the up-right to down-left. Just like many other weapons does.

If the swing starts from the down and up, it has disadvantage to make a headshot than the “stars from up to down” swings.

I would like the shield visual to be nerfed. Can’t see half my screen when holding block.

Otherwise, the only real problem I have with them is the slow movement speed and lack of dodge distance. If the shielded weapons were to get buffed then in order to prevent power creep, FS would need to remove some of the stamina shields.

IIRC, you can still get 10 stamina shields on them… That would definitely need to be reduced if they get buffed in any way.

1 Like

Half the screen with the shield Illusions that play nice. The complete screen with the Weave one.

Some people wont remember, but Kerillians was just as bad and got changed soon after it went live. Of course everyone else that has no pointy ears was neglected.

3 Likes

It’s still bad. I still can’t use it because of how much screen space it STILL takes up.

1 Like

I would say the difference is quite massive.
The shield went from having no clue where one is heading, or if one can stop blocking to safe to use.

Having a massive board on one side of the screen while blocking is annoying. Not being able to see the Monk that is about to hug you because your board is held in front of your face is silly and lethal. Ofcourse Krubers standard Shield skin, which makes him hold the thing just under his line of sight would be the best position for each and every single shield, but since we all know how absolutely terribly busy FS is, expecting them to look and change each and every skin and adjusting their position seems like a stretch. A slight move to the left might just do the trick for all the peekaboo shields out there. That change might also just do nothing and make everything look terrible.

4 Likes
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