It’s probably a bit more nuanced, and with blame on both sides. There’s plenty of people who for various reasons are more susceptible to certain tactics and schemes than others. Is it their fault for being more susceptible to it?
That’s even before we get into the problem of free will probably not actually existing.
In any case I think it would be too simple to only blame the consumers. It’s also probably too simple to only blame the providers.
Not I, not until I see so e major changes that are more centered around a positive customer experience.
I’m checked out on that front mostly.
I would say both are equally guilty.
One for creating and using manipulative tactics to push it.
The other for reinforcing it and justifying it. Whether by buying into such eco-systems or by those in power not fighting it on behalf those with that should be protected from such aggressive practices. Like those with genuine learning difficulties, children, etc.
Frankly I disagree. The argument of nuance is simply there to obfuscate the fact that taking responsibility requires discipline and some modicum of will, and the ability to suffer the consequences of each and that most people lack precicely that, yet are unable to admit it to their egos. Hence the blame shifting.
If you know something is predatory and you don’t do anything about it, you’re part of the problem. If you don’t recognize a predator, you’re lacking essential skills in life and should be taught the right way to recognize and handle one. If you’re unwilling to accept that, again you’re part of the problem.
And yet history is full of people following fashions, being influenced by commercials, trends, media, religions, falling in with cults… and indeed buying products they shouldn’t or going to casinos.
The world is very rarely black and white.
Edit: I have no great love for the person who is the subject of your ire. In fact they’re probably not seeing this at all, as I think they’ve ignored me for disagreeing with them previously. Not defending them in particular, just people not being perfect in general - when it comes to consuming stupid stuff.
I’ve bought some, usually when a major update hits, and usually the weapon skins since those are at least interesting. Didn’t for the penances, and probably won’t in the future unless crafting turns out to be wonderful.
You’re mixing things up here. I never claimed for the world to be black and white. I merely pointed out what is right. If the guidelines you try to adhere to aren’t clear in a black and white sense you’re basing your chocies on already dilluted principles.
Principles as the word implies should be clear so you have something to aspire to. By your reasoning I might as well do whatever and keep indulging because people before me did so and that’s okay I guess. It’s a bad mentality imo honestly.
Oh I know. They won’t answer because it’s inconvenient and they have no real argument. I’m just engaging in some idle chatter here since it’s more entertaining than whatever FS puts out, or doesn’t for that matter.
I might agree with you in principle (wink wink), but I’m not sure. Black and white morals and principals sounds good, until suddenly you discover you’ve committed genocide or blocked stem cell research because of some antiquated dogma.
Morals in any real sense, are fluid and have changed a whole lot in the history of mankind, let alone in the last few centuries.
Having a strong sense of right and wrong is important, but I also feel like the road to hell is paved with immovable principles.
That’s not to say people aren’t responsible for their actions, though. If people didn’t buy scammy products, if they didn’t vote for certain types of people, if they didn’t do XYZ the world would be a much better place. But humans are… well, humans. Perfect it ain’t.
MTX cosmetics operate under the same policy as the candy at the checkout at the store, some part of the playerbase is going to be very impulsive/bad with money the same as some part of ANY group of people will be on average.
this model works better the better the draw of the actual game so a game that most people who play it enjoy is ideal. unfortunately, they have chosen to make a Warhammer 40,000 game, the franchise with maybe the most negative fanbase of all time. i’ve seen people paying for a grand of stuff, who were complaining about the game enough to talk people out of playing, then go back to loitering in the store complaining after it was safely in their car. i think some 40k fans literally play the game TO hate on it.
@SkipRat
It‘s not anybody else’s job to fight your crusade. Micro transactions are pretty simple: someone offers a a product and asks a price. Someone else can then decide wether they are willing to pay the price for the product in question.
Your decision not to buy anything is fine - but that doesn’t mean anyone else’s decision to buy is somehow wrong as it is a completely personal decision. I‘m free to spend my money in any way I see fit that doesn’t actually harm others.
I am of the opinion that feedback is a meritocracy that should be valued based on the individual’s argumentative abilities and the experience they have on a game.
For instance, someone who mains a champion, class, or weapon, should be listened to when they’re upset about changes that’ll drastically affect their enjoyment - if a player has spent thousands of hours on one weapon and is upset that a change or update ruined that one weapon they enjoyed, then their opinion should absolutely be taken into account for future changes - your dedicated players are your most vital resource, these are the players that hype the product up, that create wikis, that spread word of mouth - their feedback matters.
On the same coin, if someone presents a really good argument and is able to debate their point on why they feel something in the game should be changed, then they too should be listened to. Critics who are able to dissect a system in full depth while presenting supporting details that ground their argument are absolutely worth listening to - these are the types of players who might have experience in the field, these are the types players who might have extensive experience in modding the game and do volunteer community work; I am reminded of this thread that was completely ignored:
With all that said, feedback is a very delicate thing to balance. What do you do if someone is able to argue really well why a weapon should be nerfed while another player who has 4k hours with that weapon is arguing against the nerf - I’m not sure.
One thing is for certain: someone who spends exorbitant amounts of monies on the game shouldn’t be taken seriously if they don’t even play the game, let alone provide adequate critical analysis for future changes. Just because you spend money doesn’t give you an advantage over another player’s feedback, period.
that’s the most horrific thing i’ve seen in months. thankfully you are alone in that view.
Why is it that people always immediately jump to the most extreme example of genocide when we’re talking about having a modicum of self control/discipline and not enabling psychologically predatory mtx? I understand where you’re coming from but again, it feels like a copout people use to justify not admitting to themselves that they like getting played and taken advantage of because they’re too weak willed to resist.
True, which is why I like to argue that taking a hard stance on some issues is good from time to time. You won’t be able to counteract it 100% but you should at least try to.
Ignoring critical feedback from fans is a surefire way to get out of touch changes, weird sequels, and bone headed decisions that impact the overall quality of the product. When you ignore your fans to chase another demographic is when quality suffers.
There’s a reason I keep joking that Jakal is secretly a Darktide exec’s alt account. Man has the exact same mindset
Once again I am convinced that when someone is having a constructive dialogue with you you start trying to get personal. I’m surprised you haven’t blacklisted him yet and accused him of being toxic.
Regarding cosmetic issues.
In my case, buying cosmetics has absolutely no effect on my opinion becoming more important etc. Do I consider myself an investor? No, I don’t own shares in this company, I don’t negotiate with the leader of the company, etc. Endorsements and investments are different things. I.e. if I put money into this game and buy cosmetics, I am supporting and agreeing with what is being produced there, from a consumer’s point of view, but not from an investor’s point of view. The goal of investors is to get a return, i.e. money. You have invested a large amount of money in this game and you want to get that money back with a %, usually it doesn’t matter how, but that the money comes back with a plus. And the purpose of supporting consumers is that they like what they’re doing and want more.
If I’m buying cosmetics. It’s my money and my choice. BUT. I stopped buying cosmetics after after the release of the Krieg set, as the subsequent cosmetics I can only rate as “rubbish”, yes yes the usual repaints. I supported the developers with coin and believed they would fix it, but now all I see is a completely lazy attitude towards the game content in general and EVEN the content they charge for. They still haven’t fixed the basic knife animation they added… What to speak of global changes to random numbers and content. Maybe the shark team is banned from doing this, I don’t know, I haven’t held a candle to it.
I buy absolutely nothing from the shop at the moment as I see no point in supporting something I don’t like and what’s going on in the game at the moment - nothing.
P.S. And yes, I’m not going to judge people if they continue to buy what Fatshark produce.(at least in public) It’s their money and their choice.
I bought some with the imperial edition aquilas but personally i think 99% of the stuff being sold in the store are either of subpar quality or horribly overpriced so i haven’t bought any extra.
If your opinion should matter more because you pay more is a silly question. You could be totally clueless about topics like balance but still waste thousands of euros/dollars for cosmetics.
I don’t even understand this “investor” view. You are paying for pixels on a screen that will disappear in 20 odd years.
Utter waffle and inherently wrong.
Buying into toxic practices and reinforcing such practices is bad for everyone. It benefits no one, it never improves games and only really benefit investors.
Once again, it is micro-transactions that are the problem as I have no problem with companies with wanting to make money, it’s just the way they do it.
Anyone who buy micro-transaction is a problem within gaming, as you are giving the green lights to abhorrent practices. Gaming is about entertainment, it’s not about getting mugged off.
There is no justification it, end of.
I have bought cosmetics in other games but none in Darktide nor do I think buying Darktide cosmetics gives someone a more valid view of the cash shop.
I generally shop for cosmetics on several criteria :
Is the game fun on its own and does it check all the boxes?
Do tue cosmetics look good?
is the price reasonable for what is being offered?
I feel Darktide critically fails on 2 out of 3 of these mostly in point 2 and 3 with a little of 1.
I find a lot of the more recent cosmetics just look ugly or have glaring quality problems. My favourite set in Darktide was probably the first post release being the Steel Legion Tanker set and most of the other class ones in the same release. Past that some of the Underhive ones looked cool but then the quality started to drop.
The Krieg set is the hot topic example but there are just so many reused bits and flat out recoloured bits. A lot of it just also does not look appealing to me.
Next I would point to price which imo is approaching highway robbery. Comparing to something like Warframe, Paladins, and others that are F2P games where boosters and skins are the primary cash flow the price feels steep. This is even worse when compared to skins in Killing floor 1, 2 and games like Payday 2.
This is also further irritating when many bits get released as separate alternative pieces later on that work better with the original set vs the pieces sold. Finally a lot of pieces just don’t match up or don’t mix well with others further reducing value for money.
The only worse value for money I can think of is probably Overwatch 1/2 and Star Trek Online tbh.
TL;DR: If people aren’t buying the cosmetics there is probably a reason for it
One of these isn’t true, unless no one is investing…
Or investors are no one…
Maybe they are reptiloid?
Or secretly evil governmental agencies?
Or both?
You might be onto something…
Go and get‘em!