So infinite ammo Kerillian and BH don’t exist huh? I can’t remember the last time I needed ammo on either. Also, if you nerf beam staff, you’ll have to nerf falcion too.
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Beam staff has no latent armor pen, only the dot does, you must headshot with it like any other ranged weapon on armored targets to get the same armor pen effect. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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This.
The only thing that needs to be nerfd is its ability to stagger elites/armored. Other than that, true ranged classes can wipe hordes and specials just as easily.
No. This stuff has to be either anti-special or anti-horde. And if both it needs to be weaker in that fields than her more specializaed staffs like Bolt and Fireball/Conflag.
You think nerfing it will make her not viable? Why? Couse you will ACTUALLY HAVE TO DRAW MELEE WEAPON and use it in this melee-focused game as devs said about it.
Your staff is not supposed to be answer for everything. That is why your have your melee weapon ffs. Your range weapon is there to complete your melee, not to replace it. Just there is no point of using melee with beam staff and her general low heat cost for everything and auto-venting with F.
First of all, playing 90% of map with only your staff is wrong by game-design. You are suppose to melee and use your strong range in needed sitations.
WIth current beam every noob just runs through map with Beam staff and snipe from afar, alt-fire when on face and skillfully hold left click on boss with F spam.
You are not suppose to primary using your staff as Sienna. Mind you- this is her SECONDARY weapon.
I hope for balance soon so Sienna “players” can actually learn how to melee a little.
That’s because specials aren’t special and elites aren’t elites. The balancing is way out of line for -everything- currently. This forces people to decide what is bad and what is good solely based on what spawns a lot, which more often than not is hey, specials and elites. The rest is just fodder you deal with along the way, hordes haven’t been a threat to the point of you requiring the niche of a flamethrower and if you do then IB will fill that slot.
There’s been a lot of good use of Conflag due to its effectivity with staggering and control-play, fireball is pretty decent but has a high skillcap to warrant its use both effectively as well as to avoid FF.
Then there’s bolt staff which is easy to learn but hard to master, but is suffering greatly compared to beam when it comes to it’s massive heat generation.
The reason people say the other staves are bad aren’t just because they need some love but because people use beam so much that they don’t get the chance to learn the real nuance those weapons have.
Also please stay on the topic, you are correct BH can be pretty whack too but they fixed a weaponswitch bug to bring him more in line that people were abusing frequently, elf can have infinite ammo but sacrifices team utility for it and most elves that do play this style seem to lack the ability to play melee properly. These things can be fixed by adjusting numbers and the rarity of ammo spawns however, but aren’t the topic at hand at all.
This issue is currently ruining a whole character since it has such a high preference rate and is derived simply from a single WEAPON choice creating the problem, so it only makes sense to give it a proper review.
Hiding the issue behind ‘‘other classes can do X or Y’’ simply because people think this is just another issue people moan and whine about that isn’t an actual issue won’t solve any of the balancing problems that are currently in the game. Beam needs to be looked at, and the classes that people are hiding the beam issue behind need to be looked at too.
Design-wise weapons and talents and classes are there to provide choice and specialization, a single weapon should not turn you into a one-man army with a swiss-army-knife that can settle any problem on the flick of a wrist.
This right here. Rest of her staffs is not useless. It’s just they are no ez mode so for every “beam staff master” out there they seem like super bad in comparsion. Once beam staff is nerfed to the point when you actually HAVE TO choose between staffs to take- you will see a lot of “Sienna mains” to stop playing Legend because they will suck without their beam staff.
Other staffs are good, but since they are not easy mode- Sienna mains cry those staffs are useless because they think Beam Staff is balanced and fine.
If such an OP weapon exists they will never increase their skill in game.
And do WS and BH have ranged weapons that can do 3 things well? Or even two things? No, they have weapons that are good for killing specials, but after 1.05 they don’ti clear hordes or do unlimited boss damage. They can snipe infinitely.
The hagbane bow, which does two things well, has so little base ammo it is not infinite. And if the BH unloads with the repeater or xbow into a boss, he absolutely runs out of ammo.
And Beam explosion absolutely has armor pen, Melvin. I’ve killed hundreds of SV with body shot beam explosions. Test it and educate yourself before spouting nonsense.
Bolt is average at best, but overheats too fast. Fireball is decent. Flamestorm is 100% useless, unless you want to have a tickle fight with hordes.
I firmly believe the game for Sienna is balancing and managing her heat as she fluidly changes between staff and melee. Sure it’s her secondary weapon but it’s also going to be a great deal of her damage as a wizard and that shouldn’t change.
Her ability to do so freely should come from clever resource-management however, and not solely from the use of 1 staff combined with vent-on-crit and an on-demand heat clearing talent that ALSO oneshots either a bunch of mobs or an elite/special. It’s just too much, too easy, and too safe.
I play mostly unchained, with a dagger for crowd control and headshots, or a mace. Along with it I prefer a bolt staff but the balancing of the game currently prefers the versatility and low heat cost of the beam staff. I wouldn’t mind that if it wasn’t so absurdly easy and cheap to use however. It completely devalues skillful gameplay and mastery when practically anyone can switch to Sienna, pick up a HALF-decent beam staff and melt an entire map.
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Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that seinna, like other ranged profession is a glass cannon build. You screw up once as melee and your gone. This does apply to melee classes, however, it is alot more forgiving to melee due to the talents and passives. If you take a strong attack from a chaos warrior as a tank class, you can still walk away from it and keep fighting. So this is a advantage that melee has over ranged specs.
If you are going to nerf ranged specs, you need to give them a bit more in melee to make up for it.
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If a boss isn’t dead by the time you run out of ammo on BH or Kerillian, then you’re just bad.
Yes, the beam staff will get nerfd. But it seems like anyone who complains about it are melee classes who don’t know how to play their role.
You have a point and I love hearing this because people complain a lot in ways that often devolve to ‘‘Why can’t I top leaderboards as X?’’ and you see they’re playing a tank-based setup and you just roll your eyes.
I disagree that one should see this as a ‘‘nerf of ranged classes’’ however, compared to VT1 where ranged could already do a lot of work they haven’t nearly gone so far as to make this game melee-only, far from it even.
Beam is currently being singled out not because people want to nerf sienna, but because EVEN the people that PLAY her feel bad/cheap about playing her when they use the beam staff. And I’m not trying to talk out of my ass here either, I’ve had open conversations with a lot of the groups I was in regarding the game’s state and our hope for its future. The consensus was definitely that many wanted the other staffs to receive some buffs/reworks/heat-treatment and the beam to be pinched a bit.
It shouldn’t be Sienna’s only choice of ranged weaponry, it should be a choice of weaponry.
For a proud wizard that feels as bad as wearing one pair of dirty old socks for the rest of your life.
There’s just no incentive to see her as a glass cannon when she can be your front-line caster, back-line caster or everything in between while also having heat to spare to kill all those mobs around you that you were just winding up that satisfying attack for only to have it desintegrate in front of you for the 423rd time.
Edit: Poor spelling.
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I don’t play melee-only classes. I prefer ranged-only classes but that’s an odd design-choice for a hack-and-slash melee game, Kerillian and Sienna provide a decent alternative and middle-ground. Beam staff is currently forcing me to play only beam staff if I want to be efficient or not shunned by elitists that pop-up now and then regardless of how well I’m doing with other staves.
I’ll leave you guys alone now and head to bed, but keep this in mind;
The more people are carried by unbalanced mechanics, the less they’ll actually learn proper mechanics and require crutches to exist to play at a satisfactory level and pace.
The main reason I feel bad about playing Sienna with Beam currently isn’t just because it’s too easy, but because it’s carrying other people at such a rate that it’s making them lazy, or making them enjoy the game less.
I play co-op games because they’re co-op.
Not to repeatedly drag people through a map doing the same thing over and over regardless of what the game throws at me because the weapon I have will deal with it anyway without too much thought or decision-making.
I’m tired of a whole group wiping and kiting around on my own simply because people haven’t learned the game’s core mechanics, which will always boil down to you clashing a mob with your melee weapon. Or at the very least blocking/dodging like the new tutorial so kindly taught you to do.
I want to see people get a chance to enjoy the game for what it’s meant to be, but a lot of that is going to hinge on Fatshark fixing bugs and balancing the game properly, and I hope that happens even if it means nerfing something that works really well because it works too well.
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I wish sienna bum lovers would stop comparing her to waywatcher xD
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and then another chaos warrior comes around the corner and suddenly she is near useless. where me as an elf will happily lay the smack down on that sods face, and any more chaos warriors that come by, with my glaive. not sure why you’re trying to longbow a chaos warrior down as elf, it’s too slow and requires too much time to aim.
all those threads about people wiping in legend due to chaos warrior patrols, you know why you don’t see anyone complaining about how OP sienna is there? because people never consider her weaknesses and just focus on the wierd 40second cooldown that most of the time doesn’t kill what you want it to kill.
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On legend everybody has fun regardless whether you have the beam sienna or not coz on this difficulty everyone gets their fair share of kills (if it’s what you are after).
Other characters have much faster ways of killing bosses though and soem bosses can be damaged only by headshots.
Sienna? There are 3 Sienna classes, dude. Pyromancer is more or less perfectly balanced one. Another one is broken coz of idiotic tranquility, and another one has some serious issues on legendary due to insane heat damage.
Ruins how exactly? I see people coming up with some questionable stories about Sienna players killing everything and that they don’t even have a chance to fight mobs using their swords and axes. If we are talking about legend then this is straight up bullsh…t and I call these players dirty liers.
Numbers don’t lie. If players in your group are good they ALL get their fair share of kills (if you care about it so much). EVERYONE. I played as SIenna, I played with Siennas on legendary and it has been always like this. Sometimese Siennas got more kills (not by much) especially if they used a fireball stave but it’s logical.(AOEing trash mob)
Most of the time, however, the kill count was pretty even coz everyone had to do their job coz legendary is a real mess.
It’s boring for me. Please, fatshark change the way it works and I don’t care that it might be fun for thousands of others. Only I matter.
Good. If I build my character with the sole purpose of dealing with the heat (all talents, stats and traits work for this purpose alone) I damn expect it to work like this. if I wanted to play a spellsword I would start playing Unchained.
On legendary? Nonsense, considering that ulti can kill several trash mobs or only one special and after hitting this special it stops.
What people? I don’t want that. Thousands of other players who can finally play the way they always played mages in countless of other crpgs, action rpgs, mmorpgs don’t want that. The game sold that well coz it finally got rid of this melee circle jerk paradise crap and allowed diversity.
Nonsensical claim.
I agree that the beam stuff needs some tweaks and the other staves need some love but this claim is utter bollocks.
You HAVE to draw melee weapon on legend.
No. In fact not being able to use staves for blocking is ridiculous. They should provide at least some block.
I repeat. On legendary there are countless of situations when you have to switch to melee. On a ranged dps class(pyro) melee should be optional and used only when absolutely necessary and ranged should be primary means of attacking mobs.
No.
No. Pyro is a ranged dps dealer first and foremost and it is proved by her talents alone.
I know how to melee thank you very much and I do it when it is needed. . I don’t play this class for meleeing which I don’t like in any game(crpgs, action rpgs, mmorgs, dark souls etc). Why do you want to force your playstyle on everybody else? Not gonna happen, dude. Not gonna happen.
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Yeah Sienna beamstaff with 100% uptime on Legend is perfectly fine lol, it needs a proper hard nerf or might need to start kicking players.
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this is the most bewildering statement i have seen in all the arguments against sienna so far.
sienna’s not supposed to use her staff as her primary weapon?
hahaha.
i think we can stop the debate at this point.
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Let me Quote you Hedge (one of FS developers):
With Vermintide being a melee focused game, this feels… wrong
That was regarding how strong range combat was/is in V2.
I guess you also did not play V1 but you have your primary weapon (frist slot always) and secondary weapon (range one, though ofc Slayer has second melee as exception). Vermintide game is suppose to force you to carefully use your resources, therefore you should melee mostly small packs of mobs and half/half during hordes as range weapons supposed to be quite constly to use (heat/ammo). Range weapon being stronger than melee should be used on Specials/Elites and bosses mostly but without spamming and with managing your resources. In V1 3 alt-fire shots from Beam Staff would almost totally overheat you. Therefore it was only a panic button vs hordes, not the primary tool. That was her melee weapon. WH universe is not a fantasy where you spam spells, as each spell usage may basicelly kill you/hurt you or mutate you.
If you think Sienna primary weapon is her staff then you just don’t know how vermintide games aim to be designed.
But once they nerf Beam Staff, I look foward to see how you will handle Legendary once your easy mode will be turn off.
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