studies show that the more you play, the more likely you are to use real money on the in game cash shop.
smart people who are certain their game is good would hear this and would think “ah, so let’s make our game as good as possible so people will sink a lot of time in it”
fatshark heard this and thought “Lets make it so our shop refreshes once per hour, so people keep logging in. And lets make it so progression isnt shared so people have to spend x4 the time to feel as completed.”
Spoiler, if I am not mistaken, they said they want to continue the weapon packs of Vermintide 2, so yeah, we will see at least pay-2-play weapons.
They won’t. I don’t know why and how but it seems they’ve decided to double and triple down on loot and crafting systems that remove Player Agency and don’t respect the Player’s time at all. If this wasn’t for some reason their design goal they’d never go this way, since FS did in fact claim that they want to reduce RNG a lot with the crafting system:
We have learned a lot from our previous choices and gameplay surrounding crafting offered within the Vermintide series. For Darktide we wanted to take those lessons to expand and improve in such a way that crafting would become a central pillar of player progression, while giving more impact and agency to you, the player in your preferred playstyle.
The nature of randomization and repetitive actions sometimes seen within crafting is something that we are steering to avoid in the crafting system within Darktide. Meaningful choices will be made with strategy and goals behind them, as you set your eyes upon that perfect combination of melee and ranged weapons for your class.
You really need to show me where that´s a thing:
You get coins even if you fail a mission.
The armory resets every hour and grants overall more items than V2 per hour even if you would´ve won every run. (Unless you braindead speedfarmed on low difficulties.)
The weeklies can be rerolled to your advantage. The system still need changes, but it´s not like you´re forced to sit there doing like 50 runs to complete them etc…
You get high rolled items pretty fast to compete with the higher difficulties. They´re not godrolls, but really high rolled. Godrolls are nothing but long-time progress for those who´ll play anyway for the gameplay, not to be “rewarded for their time” permanently.
The game is already way more casual-friendly than V2 and also doesn´t miss to cater some no-lifers out there in terms of progress. It´s just that the most here don´t get which impact such systems have and how they´re designed.
No chance loosing a run grants nothing but a bit XP for comm-chests, or RNG chests with 3 pieces, together with the progresskiller “red item” is better than the current system in Darktide.
We just need the last 2 crafting options and probably a shared inventory across the whole account, that´s it.
Fatshark has absolutely done P2W classes and weapons, but they tend to nerf them after release due to player outrage.
I can give you a very simple example.
On my Sharpshooter I want a Plasma Gun right now. It’s not a “meta” thing, I just want one because I like the way it plays. I have enough materials farmed by simply playing with my friends to get it up to Orange Quality from Gray.
For 2 days there was none in the Shop when I was playing the game. Is my time and decision being respected?
I find myself playing other games instead and logging in at the hour to check the shop for the Plasma Gun. Is my time being respected? Do I have an in-game way to amend this? Can I perhaps obtain a Gray Plasma Gun through gameplay? No I can’t. Would the Resources and Ordo Dockets help? No they would not.
I actually once again log in in the morning just to check Sire Melk’s wares. Nothing he offers is of any use to me due to not being the weapon type I want. Is my time being respected here? My choices maybe? Do I have any Agency in amending this? No.
I have decided to “settle” for a rather mediocre standard for the Plasma Gun of my dreams. All it has to be is >350 Base Stats, decent enough (70%+) rolls on Damage and Thermal Resistance. Apart from the fact that I’ve not seen one in the Shop or at Sire Melk’s Disappointmentium, I doubt I’ll get one with high enough Stats to bother upgrading it. I have given up on getting Perks and Blessings I want - I just want a weapon that is decent enough. I can’t have it due to the Shop and Sire Melk RNG. Is my time being respected? My choices maybe? Can I amend this through gameplay? Could I amend getting a substandard Plasma Gun through gameplay maybe? No. I cannot.
And now, for a non-Sharpshooter specific example:
The Systems in place are simply disrespectful to the Player and there is no Gameplay solution to bad luck at all. What other Players and I end up doing is try to log in every hour while playing other Games in the meantime or just not bother at all and rely on sheer luck so that when I log in to play with my Friends the Shop will provide what I want. This is completely antithetical to any form of Player Agency or Choices, it doesn’t respect the Player’s time at all either. And it goes against what Fatshark themselves claim right here: Dev Blog: Crafting in Darktide
Putting aside whether the Crafting System and Perk rerolls actually are intended to “reduce RNG” and “provide strategic choices” as they claim, how does that relate to the atrocious RNG Shop systems and the Mission Terminal?
It seem that the Player has a very simple Strategic Choice to make here: Not play at all and log in just to check the Shop and the Terminal.
this topic really needs explanation by the team. Just tossing it out in an update post like it’s a self-explaining reason is not helpful. it’s frustrating.
And you think a RNG chest you don´t even get if you lose a run after 30 minutes is better?
Nothing against being able to craft items as we´re able to do in Vermintide or yes, bad luck protection. But the core “reward-system” is way more forgivable compared to the time / rewards investment before. You get coins to exchange even if you lose. The RNG is just still the same.
The rest of your story sounds more like “burning out” and being pissed of for several reasons.
Dude, in Vermintide 2 he would just craft himself Plasma, white/green/blue/orange from salvaging whatever that “RNG chest” would give him and then just reroll properites and traits he want. That’s normal healthy crafting system you grind addict.
Hell if he got from Emperor chests random 6 reds after few weeks he would craft himself a Red Plasma. Hell, if he got good enough to play higher difficulties he would actually progress gear faster. Who would have thought that playing better should reward you more, eh? And if you lose run you get nothing? Yes, well, welcome to “reward” part. I start to think you never got what you wanted in V2 cause you were not good enough and you are glad in Darktide you always get scrap without even winning cause you don’t have to get better even…
Man what the hell are you even talking about. You are in total denial here and other threads. It’s getting sad hearing you defending this. You are in, man.
If I was allowed to buy a Gray Plasma Gun from the Shop right away and then knew I can spend the Resources I farm on improving it to the Base Stat level I desire and then upgrading it’s Quality, I wouldn’t be wasting my time explaining why these systems do not respect anyone’s time to You right now. I would be playing the Game and farming what I need.
If I was allowed to pick a Mission type from the Terminal and heck, maybe even just roll for the Secondary Objective to appear on Mission Start, I again wouldn’t be wasting my time explaining why that is disrespectful to my time to You, because I would be getting my Zealot’s Contracts done.
Unfortunately I can’t do either so here we are.
What was so wrong with V2’s crafting system that you needed to completely remove it, and then remake it even worse…?
I just want V2 loot system where I get showered with loot and I can use rerolling to make them better / having it as a bad-luck protection system. Granted I stopped playing before V2 crafting became a thing, so I can’t comment on that crafting system.
I’m one of those who likes some RNG, usually completely deterministic crafting tends to become boring to me simply because once you craft, you’re done.
I don’t think locking is the way to go though. Make it so it’s incredibly pricey to reroll any weapon into god-tier which still promotes getting loot with better base rolls.
Like first rolling for what traits / perks and then roll for % of those. That way you can change a very bad item into god tier but it takes a lot of effort. To me that will be more optimal. I tend to use these crafting systems as steady progression. I get a decent item, reroll one or 2 things on them to make them slightly better and when I get an item that already has plenty of good things for it I sink in a lot of effort in making it perfect.
Complete control with crafting means getting loot isn’t fun.
DUDE read the whole post instead of picking something out.
Rerolling will come to this game. Yeah it misses the “craft the weapon you want feature”, i already said it.
But comparing the overall reward system from the missions, Darktide does a clearly better job and is way more casual-friendly across the difficulties.
You´re just ignorant if you can´t see that.
No it does not do better job. In Vermitnide 2 you get better chance of good gear the better you are. Higher difficulty = better gear. Here no matter if you have no idea how to play or you push through damnation you all rely on RNG store.
A guy who doesn’t play the game almost at all but log in every hour in 20h per day has better chance of getting best gear than me logging everyday for 2-3h and clearing 5-8 Damnation runs.
That’s not how games should work.
You think everyone should just get garbage scraps from RNG store? No matter how good they are, what they play, what missions, what difficulty, if they clear secondary objectives? What kind of design is that? Where is player agenda, my own INFLUENCE on my own progression?
Higher difficulties are for its challenge and fun i guess? But that´s something you clearly miss… i guess again.
You´ve your point of view, but it isn´t absolute. Different players want different things, different systems offer different things, none of them are perfect. But in a game that offers already different difficulties, a system which assists “everyone” as best as it can, is the best way.
The armory offers stuff even if you fail and there can be really great rolls. If you´ve a bunch of time you can choose higher weeklies and get faster stuff through the special vendor. And again i´m also sure that you get easier and better gifts if you play on higher difficulties with modifiers active.
It´s 100x better and caters way more players, casuals and no-lifers across the board and offers long-term progression, even if you call it a grind. There are dozens of players who likes grinding, but need a purpose to do it that red items never offered.
Imo you do nothing but raging and also obviously gatekeeping “because the game should be like you want it to be.” And you clearly can´t play for fun since you need to be highly rewarded for taking that tome or whatever. What have you actually done in V2 once you got red items? There was not ANY reward left in that way. Playing legend or cata has been for?! Who knows…
Just open your eyes and think ones about the stuff written down srsly. “That´s how the game should work, i don´t care about others or how to attract the most poeple to play this game for longer than 20h.”
Yes the system is not perfect and crafting weapons would be awesome. But not any system is perfect and ones like the V2 one is even farer away.
Man, at this point me and others that tried their best in “discussion” with you in all threads about this horrible RNG grind will only repeat ourselves. You are in denial and there is nothing we can do about that. You do you, your right. You are perfect Tencent target audience. But a friendly advice from me: you should try mobile games, you will love them.
I just came to say one thing.
Vermintide 1 had better crafting then 2. IT had better crafting because all of the traits (ALL OF THEM) were interesting and could significantly change your play.
I had 2 red Brace of Pistols and another 5 orange all with different setups. The best was rupture, bloodlust, and ammo hoarder, because ammo hoarder gave me more ammo then scavenger as long as I knew where all the resupplies were. I was able to run Salty almost entirely as ranged in V1.
You are strawmanning hard and are still incorrect about basically everything you say. Stop living in your dream world of massive gambling addiction incentivisers, you are a victim and I genuinely feel sorry for you. Please get help, you are quite obviously at dire risk of taking damage from systems like this.
Oh yeah… another “You´re incorrect about basically everything!”, because you can´t even agree to disagree or think about the stuff, because all you want is the same stuff as usual.
FS tries something new and all you guys can do is to blame everything, because it´s not just a 100% Vermintide clone. You can´t even get out of your nutshell and can´t imagine others might enjoy one or another thing, or that the work obviously needs time etc…
Same with Psyker on this forum. Moaning about something you don´t got used to and ppl want a rework meanwhile other players enjoy it as it is. So how about asking for a subclass instead? No… better change something others might enjoy.
And again… next to you guys “ReWarDS PLEasE!”, i play just for fun. Better get help for yourself if you need it so much in a dumb game lol.
FS didn’t try anything new. This is an old and established Gacha mechanic, common in Mobile Games.