Shieldgryns Deserve Better

Can we get some updates to make Shields more appealing for Ogryns? Right now that somewhat serve no purpose other than to look really cool. They dont have to be high damage dealers, but lets add some features that would actually make sense for a shield bearer trying to protect their group. For instance, a taunt feature that pulls fire or large groups off team mates and onto you? A damage over time ability that you can activate when blocking people. Something to make it more of a useable feature in highend runs. I AM THE ONLY OGRYN WHO REFUSES TO PUT DOWN MY SHIELD, SHOW ME SOME LOVE!


I feel heavy attacks should deal a bit more damage, since the animation feels like you’re hitting them like a tank.

It would be nice if heavy 2 (the shield backhand) had a parry/guard point like the Brettonian Knightsword, since the animation of it covers the torso with the shield almost completely.


I feel like shield build would work better if bleed wasn’t functionally useless against hordes. Also agree with @zaygr shield could definitely do a little more damage, at least to squishy targets. In reality being hit like that should shatter someone, if shield is gonna be slow and low single target it could at least clear hordes passably.


I would really like it if Shieldgryns learned how to dodge-slide and sprint-slide instead of plunking down their shield and doing nothing as soon as shots start flying. It’s giving me bad Ironbreaker flashbacks.

Maybe the slab and maul should be more offensively tuned instead of having a near-unbreakable guard.


The maul on the Shield is a Power Maul, just changing the special to Power Maul strike would make it much better

Besides changes in damage, I would like to see

  • more stamina

  • block cost reduction vs range

  • more block frames, feels like there are gaps in the player actions where the shield is front and present but without block up.

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There was a period where it worked just right when bleed damage was functional. It wasn’t huge burst damage, but you could deal with anything via attrition and simply outlasting them.
Unfortunately the meta has changed to damage-only, which is exactly what I was afraid of, utility and crowd control are just coincidental additions, and always sacrificed in favour of killing faster, and the devs are going along with it in terms of balance.
I liked the early days when using an ogryn as a moving cover, and using it to draw fire was a completely accepted and fun strategy, it added an extra element of teamwork to the game. Now it’s just wasted damage potential, especially without the bleed damage.

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I use the shield. It trivialises demon hosts to the point that I consider them broken. Good for monstrosities weeklies.

With that said, I wouldn’t mind seeing some love, but since crafting is not even in the game I haven’t even botherd to start theory crafting anything until this game gets out of what should be early access.


Umm… yes… this is me. Don’t slide much… but I most often don’t plonk down my shield against ranged either.

lol sorry, didn’t mean to disparage people who don’t slide everywhere in combat. It’s just sometimes this shield seems to promote a passive playstyle that’s really not helpful on Heresy or above.


Given how few Ogryn weapons exist, there’s definitely room for a distinct niche.

  • Increase Blocking Movespeed. The worst trait of the Maul+Shield right now is that my Bull Butcher can dodge-slide and engage enemy ranged troops in melee better than I could with a shield. So by significantly increasing movespeed during block, the shield would end up being the easiest way to tie up enemy ranged, and that’d be a huge improvement to it.
  • vs. Horde: improve the damage slightly against horde, with the goal of Average DPS vs. Unarmored/Infested horde targets. (Currently it’s below average.)
  • vs. Flak Horde: currently Shield is above average at clearing Flak enemies (which is unusual for horde-clear weapons; they often hit a wall against flak, but Maul+Shield does better against Flak than infested horde actually). I think this should be the second main thing (apart from Movement-While-Blocking) that really sets Shield apart (meaning maybe they should have even higher Flak damage than they currently do).
  • vs. Carapace: Currently it does abysmal DPS vs. Crushers (~68) and I think this should be dramatically improved so that it does bad DPS vs. Crushers (~120). Push-attack > L3 combo should be the best single target combo (like Mace+Shield from Vermintide) for reaching that DPS.
  • Heavy stagger. Heavies are mediocre DPS and maybe that’s fine as long as they reliably stagger everything up to (and including) Crushers. This will mean you can stunlock basically all non-monstrosities infinitely with shield. If Power Maul can stunlock Crushers while also doing the highest Ogryn melee DPS against them without being OP, then clearly Shield stunlocking them (while doing pitiful DPS; granted it’s cleave DPS against more than just a single target) won’t be OP either.
  • Auto-blocking. I’ve always liked @zaygr 's suggestion of Bret Sword-style auto-blocks whenever the shield looks like it’s protecting the Ogryn. So doing that would be great.

So the two main strengths of Shield would be that you can close on ranged enemies while blocking and you can clear Flak horde faster than any other Ogryn weapon.

No melee weapon should do less than 100 base DPS vs. Crushers with an endgame weapon (Damage attribute >60%), but Shield, Krourk cleavers, and maybe Turtolsky VII are all below that threshold currently. (I say “maybe” because I definitely recorded my Turtolsky VII at 89 DPS but that’s close enough to 100 that maybe testing errors, like not charging heavies reliably or not hitting headshots, were a factor.)


One thing that puts me off the sheild is you cant see through it despite being a window… I thought I was using the special wrong but this is normal… Maybe a ‘force’ sheild or the one Reinhardt uses… so u see through it and provide cover however a counter will be needed like sniper/dog/horde/grens go through it… Another idea is why not a have a slab sheild and a choice of melee weapon… a gauntlet+sheild sounds fun…

I was just writing another reply and came up with mostly the same suggestions before I saw your post here. Implementing these changes would go a long way to make the Shield one of the most fun to use weapons in the game.

Shields should let you play very aggressively letting you push into ranged groups and bash and push your way around the battlefield to help allies.

  • Auto-blocking. I’ve always liked @zaygr 's suggestion of Bret Sword-style auto-blocks whenever the shield looks like it’s protecting the Ogryn. So doing that would be great.

This change alone would make the Shield feel amazing to use and make combat with it flow so much smoother.

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I’m all up for improving the damage of the Slab Shield, but right now I feel the Ogryn’s melee arsenal has a glaring problem.

-I can take the Bull Butcher with Slaugtherer and become good at eliminating 90% of the enemies in the game.
-I can take the Bully Club or the Shovel and become good at eliminating the remaining 10% (Maulers, Ragers, Ogryns).
-I can take the Shield or the Power Maul to provide CC.

The percentages are ofc made up to get the point across. We have ONE weapon that eliminates hordes quickly and efficiently, and this weapon can also get Slaugtherer for another 75% dmg boost. If I happen to pair the Bull Butcher with a Grenadier Gauntlet/Rumbler I can suddenly deal with all threats in the game – Hordes, groups of Scabs/Dregs, Elites, Specialists, Carapace, Shooters, and even Monstrosities. I don’t need teammates to cover up any weaknesses.

If I take any other melee weapon then a Bull Butcher, I’m going to be weak to “OK at best” for eliminating hordes and groups of Scabs/Dregs. And these are my most common enemies in every room. When I queue Quick Play and get random teammates with unknown weapon load-outs, do I gamble that someone else covers my AoE weakness? Or do I just bring BB+GG and cover everything myself? And we can’t just nerf the Bull Butcher either, because then the Ogryn doesn’t have any efficient horde clear, which is supposed to be a class strength according to the Ogryn reveal by Fatshark.

I’m not disparaged. I feel like I’m missing a trick by not sliding enough :).

the problem with the shield (at least for me) is not its stats, even if they buffed the numbers substantially i doubt it would see much play among’st my group of friends.

because of fun, or lack there of, it’s slow and sluggish and the implacement mechanic is the opposite of a fun mechanic, it doesn’t involve any decision-making, timing or skill expression. and to top it of its quite low in impact (mostly less impactful than just controlling a wave)

Eh, that’s not its problems. Low skill weapons are fine. And the weapon does have skill expression. Choosing to plant yourself is a choice. Just as choosing to stop is. It’s not as high-skill as, say, running a Halberd and maintaining perfect tempo on your single target or aoe combo (actually this is why I generally hate the halberd, especially with non-dedicated inputs for heavy attack and light attack combos,) but it still is an expression of skill.

The problem is, it doesn’t matter if you block everything. Most allies can’t shoot through you, and you are removing your ability to move up or otherwise impact the battle that’s happening.

Even on Malice, a ranged firing line can drop your shield stamina so fast that you will be forced to plant anyways. That is the shield’s problem. It being slow is fine. It being sluggish is fine. It should probably be buffed there, but that’s not the weapon’s issue.

The issue is that the shield cannot actually push on higher difficulties, making it mandatory to plant.

Secondary issues are things like Bulwarks/Crushers just phasing through the shield.

All shield weapons, including deflector force swords, should block all ranged fire at a fraction of the cost they do now. Getting shot at should be cheap on stamina/peril. What it also should do is slow you down a touch while being shot at.

Likewise, shield weapons should have a passive that naturally reduces damage taken from ranged fire. Psyker’s deflector force sword should be relatively weak (E.G. 20%) whereas ogryn’s shield a fair bit stronger (E.G. 50%). If they don’t already (haven’t checked in a while,) both shields should be able to block a sniper’s shot at severely reduced cost, and both should passively reduce the damage a sniper would do if you, say, get shot through a horde.

They can be slow, clumsy, limited weapons. But they need to be better able to do their job. So why should these areas by upgraded?

  • The weapon ‘forces’ the user to plant too much. The issue is stamina costs against damage are too high.
  • The weapon is slow and sluggish. The issue is it doesn’t gain enough for how sluggish it is.
  • Ogryn has a general problem with ranged attacks. Giving a surefire way an Ogryn can deal with ranged that also helps the team makes the weapon compelling.
  • If it has passive reductions, then shoving with the weapon and getting some attacks off while being shot at by ranged enemies, even if the weapon is sluggish, will be more viable due to passive damage reduction.

My point is mostly that, the issue with the shield is that it’s not good enough at its niche, and it pays a lot for that bad niche. Buff up the niche and, while it won’t replace every Ogryn weapon, it will at least be taken literally ever.

Well remember capability isn’t a binary thing.

Meaning when you take Bull Butcher + Grenade Gauntlet you actually won’t do great DPS vs. Mutants (and a few other target types), which means you aren’t just magically doing great DPS against everything (and that’s where you want teammates to come in).

Additionally while you’re right in terms of just melee weapons that only Bull Butcher is great against hordes, Ogryn as a class definitely does just fine with single-target weapons with a Heavy Stubber (and to lesser degrees: Rumbler or Ripper Gun). Stubber shreds hordes faster than basically any other horde-clear weapon, and does so with the highest ammo capacity in the game (measured by total damage all shots fired). In fact it has 50% more ammo capacity than the Kantrael XII, and pierces like 5+ targets, which multiplies the ammo efficiency (for example if you average 3 targets per shot, you actually have 350% more ammo capacity than the Kantrael XII, when measured by total damage).

I do agree that it’d be great to see more good horde-clear Ogryn melee, but I think they’re less reliant on it than you’ve presented. (And while I’m highlighting Stubber both Rumbler and Ripper Gun are up there too.)

Krourks I think are the weirdest Ogryn weapon currently. I wish they’d either commit to Krourks either:
A. Being an “Ogryn Dueling Sword” (with great Ogryn +5% dodge distance (current highest is -5% of all Ogryn weapons) and weakpoint-focused attacks and damage), OR
B. Being a lot more like Bull Butcher with bigger cleaves. (Like if they had lights be stabs with good armor penetration, and had heavies be reasonably fast swings with great cleave. Basically the Ogryn equivalent of a Greathammer from Vermintide; lights for single targets, heavies for horde; push-attack would cleave too to give you a moment’s space to begin your heavy spam against horde).

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I don’t know what you qualify as great DPS, but my Bull Butcher kills a Mutant in 6 Light Attacks when Slaugtherer is fully powered, and in general I just kill Mutants reliably with the Bull Butcher regardless of Slaugtherer.

Using the Stubber against hordes of Poxwalkers when you’re trying to carry Power Cells is absolutely a no-go. And I’m not just talking about Poxwalker killing. It’s about killing Scabs and Dregs too. When you see a patrolling group of Scab/Dreg shooters in front of you, you can easily dive with the Bull Butcher and take them out quickly. You don’t dive with the Stubber, and shooting has a high risk of sending them running in different directions for cover. Diving is something the other melee weapons are much less effective at because you just don’t kill fast enough. Other threats around you become aware of you which forces you to run for cover before the killing is over, and other weapons tend to swat enemies apart which consequently causes some to start shooting and more time spent running after them.

In general I find the playstyle of diving to be really powerful as both an Ogryn and a Zealot, and the Bull Butcher is king here. It’s not that the Ogryn isn’t fine with other melee weapons. The issue is that the Bull Butcher is much more effective a lot more of the time, and this talk about buffing the Shield is just a piece of a larger picture imo.

The weapon feels booring to use (slow, sluggish) and barely does anything even to the horde type enemies. Like i cannot find any justifiable reason as to why pick shield instead of just pretty much anything else in his arsenal.

The few times shields ability comes into play (basically demonhost, few odd ball cases) you can pretty much play around those sitsuations or someone unironically screwed up like pulled a demonhost.

I’m not in general the biggest shield fan, never was in vermintide2 and definitely not here. But at least in vermintide it felt like shields actually killed the few targets you aimed at in reasonable timeframe and were not absolute bricks to use.
So if the weapon is to remain sluggish/slow, then at least amp the damage to compensate for hitting such a massive object into a horde.