It’s not because it exists that it can’t be problematic.
How ?
Well:
VT1 had nothing but the keys locked. I actually got all dlc weapons before I bought the dlcs.
VT2 started this trend, true, but as I’ve been arguing for a while, I have troubles considering the incoming career as a true dlc instead of more premium stuff, for reasons i’ve already explained.
Besides, since the basic version of said addition isn’t gonna be free, but as @Adelion argues it’s probably gonna cost around 5, so, challenges being boody locked after you have payed 5 for a career (which i remind you, means 25 for all careers, and this is the price of the entire game at launch) the idea that FS doesn’t think it’s money enough to even give us the damned challenges to play it’s bloody insulting. You can’t tell me you see no difference from how DLCs have been handled so far. Even if I wanted to call this a DLC - which I don’t, because it brings no new content, and it’s gonna cost more than regular vermintide dlcs - it’s the first time we have a basic dlc and a premium dlc! the closest comparison is the collector’s edition, and what they are planning would be like the regular edition of vermintide having no challenges inside. If you see no problems with this, lucky you. but I see a developer who’s getting greedier and greedier.
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What does BBB mean? I’m trying to figure it out, but I’m still kinda lost
It is the Big Balance Beta some people are hoping desperately for. I am on the fence for this. I think there are imbalances in the game but have to wait for the actual result and where Fatshark draws the power level baseline to form an opinion.
Also, the question is if they are just looking at weapons or everything else like traits, properties, talents. There are pros and cons for both. And at least for Talents I would prefer some moderation.
Ty!
Ok so let’s divide this as it’s a complex thing and you bring many points :
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Yeah dlc will cost more than the base game, I do think that’s a given considering the support given to the game. Payday 2 does exactly this. And Deep Rock is probably on this way.
I don’t think you can actually trace a limit on how much it will cost for all dlc based on the rather low price of the base game. -
I do think they’re trying new things with dlc.
Dlc with gameplay content will be priced. But not if it divides the community.
So if another weaves-like mode were to come as a new different mode, if new maps are created or a new difficulty, they’ll avoid to put a price on it. Everybody will be able to join it for free. -
Now they put a price on new careers therefore new gameplay options, like they always did (with weapons). Considering this is way more work than weapons ‘only’ though.
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And now we’re in the realm of theories as it’s not set in stone. They probably try to separate the gameplay option (little dlc) with the cosmetic part of it (premium dlc).
That sort of division was actually asked by players when WoM came out (‘I only want weapons’ or ‘I don’t want the weaves parts’ or ‘I only want Cataclysm difficulty’). -
As you point out the premium comes with challenges. But here’s come the deal. I’m pretty sure even if it’s not confirmed, that the challenges given here will be used to unlock the cosmetics parts of the knight (think new red illusions for the new weapons challenges). Therefore premium dlc will still be strongly linked to cosmetics. We need confirmation this is the case but I think this is fine.
I’ll take you up on this points, starting with the last and moving upwards.
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I too think the challenges will be related to cosmetics, but: challenges are something that keep players engaged with the game, and are often fun to do. So, I feel it’s the worst way of rewarding premium buyers the cosmetics, while robbing normal buyers from the fun which can go with them, if properly design. Were I FS, I’d have premium cosmetics be automatically unlocked by the premium buyers, and have normal cosmetics behind challenges.
It’s also annoying to see challenges locked out in the game, if you are going for full completion. -
I agree with this separation, this is why I’m annoyed that they would put challenges there.
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they didn’t always put prices on gameplay options like you say. the weapons were simply part of a payed DLC. now for the first time we see a “gameplay only dlc” where you pay for said gameplay options alone.
Were they to release new maps alongside this premium career, I’d agree with you, because they’d do so for free (if they stick to this development plan), and the situation would be basically that of old DLCs. But as this isn’t happening it’s not the same situation. -
I think the new development plan has its merits, if done properly.
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I don’t consider a given that DLCs should cost more than the base game: they take waaaaay less resources than creating the game from scratch, so they shouldn’t be that expensive. they used to cost more relative to the game size (8 euroes for a map pack was already more expensive than 25 for 13) but not unbelievably more: about twice the price. having a new career is very minor work compared to the game though (not saying it’s not work, mind you, but if the game was only made of careers, which is NOT, this would be an additon by 1/15th). Since WoM included there’s been a steep rise in pricing for VT2 DLCs.
Besides you mention the support given to the game as a reason for said pricing. I don’t fully agree with the most radical users in the forums, but they are not fully in the wrong when they say that support is almost a joke, with basic QoL requests still not addressed after 2 years and the time it takes to fix bugs or balance stuff, or the frequency of new releases, or the fact that once a year FS makes a major mistake and makes the game almost unbearable for a while - couple of months at least after WoM. Imo FS is spread too thin between platforms, and that has prevented them to do the kind of steady support which could indeed partially justify a price tag.
TL:DR I agree with you and FS’ new policy up to a point, and that’s ultimately depending on the rate and frequency of free content updates (like drachenfels) compared to the amount of premium stuff they release. I am strongly against the idea of premium careers, expecially when there’s little to no new announced free content to go with it.
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Seeing the original sales numbers and the current player numbers this is not a surprise.
They are going to rely on the whales like other free to play games and they will be forced to put even more gameplay additions behind a paywall to feed the whales.
I agree and, honestly, I think it’s pretty objective.
Just some info. IF the challenge were to reward cosmetics. You can STILL do them without owning the dlc. Exactly like WoM do indeed validate you all challenges done before owning the DLC (and when you actually buy the dlc, they are all “already validated”), it should work the same way here. So challenge will be done, but you won’t be able to get the reward (obviously) as it is a cosmetic.
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Where will be my proof that i completed it? If it’s invisable it’s not worth doing, gotta have it show ‘completed’.
Even if you don’t get a cosmetic, just be able to complete the challenge and see you did it, and then if you buy dlc you get all the cosmetics and skins unlocked
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You actually see the sentence in in-game chat for challenges. I don’t know for challenges that are outside a game (like finish a map in legend).
you would still have to buy the premium version to get them, which isn’t something you’re likely to do if you bought the normal one
I agree, but it’s not something I condone: first, vermintide 1 never did it, and we aren’t talking of something that was out ages ago. FS just got greedy.
Second: using free to play marketing in a game which is not free to play is plain wrong.
Why are people complaining about having to pay for new content? If you don’t want to pay for new content, then just keep the content you have at no extra charge. Seems pretty simple. Who taught you that you’re entitled to the work product of another person for free? We do not own Fatshark. We are customers. That means it’s a business transaction.
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A lot of people’s expectations are getting warped by the multitude of business models in gaming nowadays.
They’re getting used to the constant content stream of games that finance their production with early access sales for years (so people feel like they’re getting content while the game isn’t even finished), games that exploit whales with limitless microtransactions (paid lootboxes and the like), and games where content is incomparably cheaper to make.
As much as I had to shake my head at some of Fatshark’s missed opportunities in the last 2 years, I have to admit that Vermintide 2 is stuck in a hard spot inbetween numerous games that either have bigger teams and playerbases or a business model and game design that make throwing out new content a lot easier.
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But the way FS is going about financing their studio isn’t nefarious in the least. There are no pay-to-win weapons hidden behind RNG lootboxes like CoD was at one point. There aren’t any pay to progress models that make the game essentially impossible if you don’t engage in micro-transactions. It’s literally a studio creating a product and then selling the product. Occasionally, they even give the product away for free. Paying $12 does not entitle anyone to 5 years worth of Development. It entitles you to the product you purchased for $12. Any additional products may cost additional money to compensate the developers of said product for their work. If gamers can’t figure that out, maybe they should find a free hobby like hiking or watching paint dry.
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They haven’t even finished the base product we paid for, 2 years ago.
They also haven’t finished WoM, which we alraedy paid for too.
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Please explain further.
Also, if you would like to protest, just don’t buy the new content. I’ll play my GK and you can complain on the forums about how unfair the free market is. That’s the great thing, no one is forcing you to purchase this. No one is gonna come take away any part of the game you have when Season 3 is released. You just have a new option to buy another product.