Honestly, this particular change feels more like FS just following what other games have done.
Thankfully, they’ve said they’re looking at adding a scoreboard, though when (or if) it’ll happen is anyone’s guess.
I almost always tried to just do everything myself in V2. Hordes, specials, bosses, whatever. Some might call it circle chasing, but to me it was just the most reliable way to get to the end of the run with all the books.
I agree with Zoralink. The information alone is of course not a valid representation of performance. But if you as a player set the right context for that information you can get value out of it. The problem is many people don’t do that. Saying the information the scoreboard provides is useless is just plain wrong. Maybe for you, it is worthless. But that is your fault then.
For me, it is somewhat similar to statistics in modern sports. They are important, every professional coach (bar the rare exception maybe) uses and relies on them but the information alone without context is not very useful. Coaches and analysts have to factor the context in to make it a useful tool.
E.g. the distance a player was running during a game in soccer might seem like a worthless stat. Because there are so many other things that impact the game and more important things than just running. But if a player is constantly running less than other players then you might start to investigate why that is the case.
“Wow, this player was only running 50% the distance of our average player in this game”. That sounds pretty bad. But if you set the context, that the player is actually a goalkeeper and from previous games you know that goalkeepers usually run only 30% the distance of a field player, then suddenly you realize that he was running a lot. This is massively oversimplified but you get the idea.
Funny to see that the group of people they listened to according to the poll doesn’t even make up 10% and this is just a straw poll not the entire player base i am willing to bet it would be about 89% for scoreboards against 11% not wanting them. Toxic players will be toxic regardless of whether score cards are in the game. They will always find another avenue to be toxic in. Now they have open voip to do it lmao. Even deep rock galatic has a way to show you how you performed at the end of the mission no one is flaming anyone in that game over performance. This is another example of listening to an extremely small fraction of the player base and punishing the rest of the players for it.
I think what’s really funny is you suggesting, that fatshark should listen to those 89% of voters, while it’s really like 60 people out of what, 1 000 000 sold copies? Or 500 000 people who played closed beta? I think if majority of players really cared about such trivial matter, they would bother registering on forums, and voting.
I am sorry to burst that but if I play Cata game and I end up with every single stat in green circle regarding of what I am playing as: it shows my skill, performance, ability very well.
Or you could say it shows then a lack of those for others.
I agree V2 stat board is not perfect but saying it doesn’t reflect anything well is pure false. Your example with Waystalker: it’s a highly specialized anti-special class. If he doesn’t have the most special kills at the end of the game: then he did something wrong. He had the most? Good, that’s what I expect when I see Waystalker. That’s the core design behind that subclass. Or you play Foot Knight and expect to get more special kills that Waystalker? Well, no. But you should have more melee kills than Waystalker and most revives.
Scoreboard is not perfect, but let’s not pretend there is nothing there to take info from and try to improve.
That is not how statistic works. There is a thing called “sample size” that reflects the general public/population opinion/statistic about something. Going by your argument the political polls (which usually are between 1000-5000 responders) would never be accurate in any country where millions of people live.
Most statisticians agree that the minimum sample size to get any kind of meaningful result is 100. Of course that is not perfect as for example for 2 million a perfect would be 12k invited, 2399 responders in that, assuming the usual average 20% estimated response rate with 2% error margin.
There is more to that but with how heavy the one-sided responses are here vs other, even 1000 responders wouldn’t change that. If it was more like 55-45, 59-41 or 60-40 I would agree that we would need better sample size.
tyranny of minority
My motivation to play this game is dwindling with each day. XD
Not just because of the scoreboard but everything combined makes this game a real headache right now.
That’s not how I imagined things when it was first announced.
yes, well and maths , sure theres a very broad sense you can get from say the v2 score card. but its no more accurate or insiteful than just thinking on how the run went, did you clear hordes, kill specials easily and fast you know from playing how it went and the score card is just not going to expand on that at best it will confirm at worst it will actually misslead.
not pretending im outright stating information you get from the scorecard is of less clarity and use than feedback you acrue from just playing.
there are millions or variables leading to god knows how many permutations of a v2 run. i could hoinestly not even begin to calculate it. and you have a sample size of 1, its like dipping a cup in the ocean and claiming you have sampled the sea.
then you have issues of it measuring performance not capacity
results scale inversely with performance ie the better you are the lower the numbers get.
honestly if you want to get better just pay attention while playing you will feel the areas that need improving. the stats offer no better insight.
on this we agree, there something for supporters of different teams to flex over . there for colour commenters to fill dead air in games like baseball . for coachs to look scientific.
but its all clearly bunk because every sport has a vibrant gambling scene and at the end of the game its just about who won or lost
We still want to see the scoreboard though, no matter how useless you think it is.
That does not work in anything in life if you really want to improve. From games, through sports or even job projects you have stats, metrics and data that you analyze, compare and using that you CORRECTLY asses where you need to improve, where you need to focus and what you are lacking. The best example are FPS games where you have stats like headshot ratio or accuracy. You can’t “feel the areas” here. By playing constantly you will monitor if your accuracy in game is rising or staying the same etc. If you have in some games ranking games you can’t just “I feel like I am Diamond, not Gold”. Well, tough luck. Metrics shows where you are. You can’t “feel” you ran 100m faster than last time… That’s why there is timer to show you that.
You can’t just “feel” if you progress. You need to see data or else this is so called “a bias” which many people in sports and games have: they think they are better than they really are becasue they “feel” that way. Then when tested using metrics they figured out most of them are on average scale or little above. Sadly in games most players feel they are way better than they really are. That’s why metrics are important so people can truly improve and work on areas where they do lack.
That saying scoreboard in V2 was very “beta” and should have been improved in Darktide. I want scoreboard or stats so I can see my REAL performance, not “feel”. Feelings only lead to wrong assesments when it comes to perfromance. Metrics and data are there for logical conclusions. Damage taken for example is very good indicator of performance in games like that.
If you look at one sample of a scoreboard that is true. But you get a scoreboard after every match and as in sports, the value is not in the statistics of one single game (law of large numbers). Even without gathering data over many matches in an excel sheet, you get a general sense of what stats are statistically expected. And that helps a lot when theory-crafting for builds or trying to improve your gameplay.
If you really think coaches for multi-million (or even billion) dollar franchises hire analysts and buy expensive equipment just so people have something to talk about then you should inform yourself. What you wrote is really just an uneducated rant about sports media. I was talking about coaches and analysts.
Yes and no. While I agree that it shows a certain trend, the fact that the survey is self selecting already makes the results biased in general. (And yes I agree about the removal being dumb, I’m just pointing out that that’s not entirely true either)
And @Padds: No idea why you’re so defensive of its removal, as you seem to be playing Devil’s Advocate but… poorly. Nobody is saying to ONLY look at stats, you’re the only one who keeps spouting off about how you should just play by feel. Which, to be honest, I do the majority of the time but it still doesn’t magically make it accurate at all times. Numbers help verify or refute how I felt the match was going.
its not a big issue to me i just like a good debate as much as anything but i do find it a little disheartning people actually think the scorebord shows anything well and certainly no better than a guess.
but mostly its because ive played a lot of these games and the ones that i find fun are the ones where the players are co operative and though that is certainly down to other things a lot more than any negative effect the score card brings , at the end of the day a competitive score card can only have the effect of incentivising that playstyle ie competitive .
nothing wrong with cometition i like those games to , its just i go to them for that id come to a tide game for the co op feel, and it going to ne lessened to some degree
Your entire mentality really is telling.
Factually incorrect. Like… it’s not up for debate. It’s straight up factual numbers. Just because they need to be interpreted to be used well doesn’t make it ‘no better than a guess.’
The fact that you view it as a competitive thing in the first place says more about you than anything else. I’ve never viewed the scoreboard as a competitive, outside of some mild ribbing with my friends depending on how we do. Would you still view it competitively if all they did was remove the green circles? To me all they do is make it easy to see who was the highest in a category. The people who are genuinely playing it 100% of the time solely to try to ‘win’ at the scoreboard are by far the minority of players I ever interacted with. I actually can’t think of a single time somebody was noticeably playing to ‘win’ at the scoreboard, and can only think of a single instance where somebody tried to use the scoreboard in a negative manner.
the term “circle chaser” doesnt actually refer to someone who quite literally tries to get all green circles
its a derogatory slur to refer to players who play in a selfish way,
someone who goes out of his way to hog the most fun for themself without any consideration for others
at the expense of success chance
example:
A: look at that idiot using the draught even tho he really doesn’t need it…
B: u know how it is, gotta stay healthy to get more kills…
A: F*in circle chaser…
you’d need to be assuming the intentions of an selfish player, and then lable them, even tho that person might be just inattentive
the most notable being people who are rushing constantly ahead without a second thought and certainly zero knowledge of the positioning of the team.
its more of a meme concept
its similar to cursing russian bots in counterstrike or smurfs in league
I’m in favor of a L4D type stats. Just 20 pages of skippable detailed stats after every game and lifetime stats that you can see on your profile. The more stats the better.
I’m fully aware of all of that. Despite that, you have people acting like the selfish jerks are playing substantially differently because of the scoreboard.
Nope, people just suck. Pretty much any game where you have to share resources in some manner people are going to be selfish, even more noticeable in a game like this where you need to work together.
See also: Back 4 Blood, where people will be just as big of selfish twats if not more so without the stats to (supposedly) encourage them to do so. My point is that using other players as the excuse for removing it is an absolutely terrible one and the fact that that’s the excuse being given by Obese Fish for the removal honestly irritates me. Even more so when you have people doubling down on it for no real reason, making the game a worse experience because they can’t handle the miniscule potential somebody might be mean over a stat. At the end of the run. Where it doesn’t matter anymore and you can just leave.
Poll shows people want scoreboard in the game enough said. Every person i see in these threads that is against the scoreboard can’t even give a decent answer and is usually one of the toxic people that got them removed in the first place. Fatshark please take a look at this poll and see that people want the scoreboard back.
Maybe not decent in your mind. The community already has an unfortunate aggressive element and making the game have competitive tracking only amplifies that problem. I’ll live with whatever Fatshark goes with there, but I agree with their decision to remove it.