as it has been said many times the forum doesn’t reflect the general player base of fatshark,
but for some reason we found the reason to discuss scoreboards in a spectacular fashion and some did so more fiercely than others. but certainly many feel its important enough to seek out the forum or steam and debate
so i suppose its time to ask everyone how do we feel actually feel about it?
so i ask you to vote on this poll so may it help fatshark in their decision.
Honestly, I like the idea of doing a poll here, but the number, specificity of options, and lack of ability to pick more than one option when more than one option may apply feels less than ideal. Probably should have been better separating general desire for a scoreboard, then reason for wanting/not wanting one into separate polls.
Regardless thanks for trying to gather some real data on the matter.
well i tried to have representation of all stances shown in the discussions, if you or anyone feels that none of the options represents how they view the topic i could add one retro actively,
tho would not do that for minor shifts, as a poll is for general statements and adding options after people voted would potentially falsify previous entries.
There were far too many options here. Two options is the right number, and yes, we absolutely should have scoreboards (and a solid UI which we also don’t have).
The beta unfortunately did not do it for me. There is too much not ready or implemented (like the scoreboard). The atmosphere is great. I’ll be holding off for a while, keep playing VT2, and then see if they manage to make this fly without mods. The UI for VT2 is still clunky without mods (seeing who has wounds for instance).
Thanks Cedric. - tldr, ideally I’d choose a “better scoreboard” option, which isn’t quite there.
There might be several folks here who work closely with statistics and/or performance information in their careers (like I do) or in their post-grad study. I’m guessing a lot of those folks will have a view somewhere along the lines of “garbage in garbage out”. Bad performance information finds surprising ways to reduce performance, just like well-designed and delivered performance information supports experimentation and adaptation that leads to success.
This is probably why I like some kind of scoreboard, but one with much more useful and fit for purpose information. For this poll it means I would want a better scoreboard, but not the V2 scoreboard. That isn’t exactly an option in the current list, but that is cool.
An aside, FWIW: I never really loved the V2 scoreboard because the information it provided didn’t help with builds (castle dummies, creature spawners, data-mined guides and in-run awareness are the sources for that), and it also didn’t do a very good job of reflecting the decisions that made a run succeed or fail. (that is why some good guides for new players and veteran advice start with “ignore the scoreboard”).
Let’s not go nuts on this point folks , like some threads have done - I’m not saying it gave zero information
I hear the folks that like the scoreboard saying either 1) they enjoy it as a source of banter with their friends, 2) they like going for something like a zero damage run or 3) they get a dopamine boost from the green ring. These are all legit in a videogame. The third one can encourage play-styles and decisions that actually reduce the chances of winning and can reduce enjoyment for some other players - so that is a trade-off.
An ideal scoreboard would balance as many of these as possible, be fun, and give useful information about the way play improved the chances of success.
Some people talk about potential ‘score screen abuse’ or deeper kinds of ‘toxicity’ , but I don’t know as much about that. Some folks say their 25,000 hours in V2 confirm that the score screen gives vital statistics. That doesn’t really reflect the view of most players with tons of hours - even if some of them like competing on the score screen or they have a niche question just enjoy it for the banter.
Will this thread fill with the same few folks and the same 3 arguments shouted past each other?
btw, haven’t used strawpoll. how easy is it for folks to vote multiple times?
In case you want to make another fking useless poll I’ve got an idea.
How about we ask whether people think the citizens of Tertium primarily clip their fingernails or cut them with a scissor?
SMH, clearly they use nail files
i used the word “degrading” as it encompasses every negative aspect, if you were unhappy in any way with the V2 scoreboard but still thought its a worth while venture
i had the “I think scoreboards are degrading the game but i could see a different approach work.”
answer, for that. but i can see that its a vague phrasing.
but i made the poll not to convince the opposite side, but for fatshark to look at and get a grasp of whats going on.
with that in mind do you still feel like your viewpoint is entirely different and felt missrepresented?
if thats the case pls DM me and work out what you would change.
its an option i chose against.
lets be honest : the no scoreboard is just another SJW conceptbecause some peoples are bu…rt by their result and want it to be removed. Thats the tragic reality. In all my time on VT2 i’ve never seen too much ragequit or toxic mentality because of it, generally peoples quit or rage during the game.
Its a classic : “I dont like my stats so statistics MUST be removed” mentality
didnt read a thing did ya 
No you got it all wong, mate.
The logic is that the scoreboard causes people to have a “selfish” playstyle apparently.
Because they become “green circle chasers” who want the highest score.
And that is so bad for some reason that something must be done about it.
It doesn’t matter that in thousands of hours vermintide 2 we have rarely seen any trouble because of the scoreboard.
It’s apparently affecting everyones playstyle subconsciously and it’s impossible that the people would play the exact same way with or without a scoreboard.
So in other words you’re probably exactly right or I just can’t understand the issue.
incentives cause affects, its why advertising works, battle passes , login rewards et all cause and effect. its really not a big leap. infact if you read through grassmans posts you will find several whe he states freely that the competitive nature is his main thing here, ie a direct contradiction in behaviour and speech.
and lets be clear as much as people are trying to lay this on us being bads and kiddies who cant handle the manlyness of a competitive score card in a co op game. it wasnt us asking for it removal, this issue hasnt been raised in any meaningfull way since the launch of v2 as far as i know.
This is FS learning from V2 and implementing a change because of behaviour actually observed.
so even though its a very vocal group who wont accept FS artistic fredom to create the game they want, instead of taking it up with them , they have to gaslight and make out like its our fault.
Yo, wait a minute.
The only reason why there is a clash here between two fronts is because we came to the forum to ask fatshark to put the scoreboard back in.
But some people have nothing better to do than go out of their way to argue that, no, these people shouldn’t get a scoreboard, not even a compromise.
I said this before: Asking to get something back is not the same as making sure other people will not get something back.
Apparently on one hand you’re confident that fatshark made the right decision but at the same time you fear they might change their minds.
What am I contradicting?
I like the scoreboard. I like it when I have the highest scores, obviously.
Does the scoreboard mean everything? No.
Is it still fun without it? No, not really.
Not in the end-game because there is nothing else to focus on anymore.
Do you know how I play? Probably not.
I recently started playing warrior priest a lot so I can instantly revive people, which is a lot of fun.
And I still regularly get the second highest scores with the two handed hammer.
Is it? I’d love to see/hear their process for making this determination. Did they watch every single game and use their mind reading device to determine players’ motivations? Did they cross reference these with the number of times “green circle” was said in chat? Was that then compared to that rounds’ statistics and things like friendly fire incidences along with an in depth evaluation of things like damage done and times downed?
Unless they’ve done some serious frackin’ psychological evaluation on their part, saying it’s based on observable experiences is pure conjecture and likely some knee jerk reaction to a small subset of people who are affected by the scoreboard in some manner and complain about it.
Obese Fish are free to do whatever they want with their game. That doesn’t mean people have to also like it. Also no idea where your persecution complex is coming from. People wanting something back are not the same as people who are going no, it’s fine, just deal with it! This isn’t some painting in the Louvre, this a product made to be consumed, part of that is keeping your customers happy.
that is just factually wrong, the talk about scoreboards started about the time the very first DT tease happend, there was abolutely no way, to know if there will or won’t be a scoreboard in DT at that point.
Voted different approach. As someone who has 2k hours in v2 and 35 + 435 lvl on Kerilian, i personally dont want ego measuring style scoreboard like the one in v2. Discourages tryhards to play tankers and staggers, and promotes soloing.
Maybe adding general score number consisting of damage done damage taken stagger done special/elite kills. Also as someone who didnt play closed beta, i’d prefer to first try the current one.
But now that there was another beta and I saw the scoreboard isn’t there while playing it.
I didn’t know fatshark talked about removing the scoreboard ages ago, otherwise I would’ve criticized it ages ago.
There is also the option that the current scoreboard is absolutely no reflection of skill, performance, ability or anything else as there is far too many variables for it to be remotely valuable as a tool to judge your (or anyone else’s) performance. Waystalker Pressing F to kill 3 specials is a perfect example of how “specials killed” is an example of a mindless, pointless stat to look at.
Consider the different weapons, different ULTs, different mechanics and wildly varying class roles and it is utterly pointless to compare stats on a run.
Damage Taken isn’t even a fair example as someone getting downed INCREASES their Health pool and therefore means they take much more damage by simply being downed by an assassin. Are they worse than someone who gets thumped and kicked left right and centre but stays 1hp above downed status?
In its current state the scoreboard is a simple translation of code directly to a screen. It shows you nothing useful.
I’m not against a Scoreboard in principal, but comparing such a disparate bunch of classes, weapons, builds and ULTs is completely pointless as a tool to see if you’re improving or as a reflection of…anything.
“Wow I feel like I’m having to kill a lot of specials as foot knight when we have a bounty hunter and waystalker.”
end game stats
“Oh, they killed 6 total between both of them. That explains it.”
Depends. Is the person staying above being downed vacuuming up healing? If so, no. If they’re not, they’re better, yes. It’s just another stat to help determine the above.
A personal inability to make use of more information doesn’t make the information given useless.
I really can’t be arsed to go deeper into it, that’s all it boils down to.