Scoreboard?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
108

Some dont get that make others the object of their rating is what is “toxic”.
The whole problem is a performance mindset and everyone and everything needs to be rated and improved all the time.
The whole western societys suffer from it.
Some perform good and easily outperform others but lack the empathy for those who dont or are just not interested in performing.

I really dont care if someone is good and better than me, all power to you if you do good and feel good.
But i dont want to perform or have fun playing games with people performing rather than playing.

People have more fun with likeminded people, with people with a similar mindset.
Thats all it is about.
You can argue endlesdly, mindsets wont change.

I’m not a performer and i dont feel offended if someone outperforms me.
Its like playing music together.
To do that good you need to listen to others and get into a groove together and not start performing to be better than everyone else.

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109

The great thing is, if you leave these scoreboard threads long enough then the people advocating scoreboards display exactly the kind of consescending egocentric behaviour that probably got the scoreboard removed in the first place.

I don’t get caught up in these threads anymore as they always end up the same way.

I hope people keep making threads asking for scoreboards as those threads in and of themselves demonstrate exactly the kind of low-key sh*tty behaviour that validates the arguments against a scoreboard.

If you don’t want a scoreboard just hope people keep posting threads about it. This makes sure the snotty, belittling and downright rude comments are at the top of the Dev’s minds when it comes to discussion about scoreboards and as such scoreboards will never happen.

This thread is evidence that ~merely the mention of a scoreboard~ being the cause of some pretty nasty comments and behaviour. Actually having one would only encourage this kind of thing.

For those of you who want a scoreboard, having a pop at other people really is not helping your cause at all and if there keeps being threads like this that end up descending into personal slights or outright insults you’ll never get the scoreboard you want.

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112

There’s nothing that stops fatshark from making scoreboard better by including greencircles for more “team oriented” actions. (hint: they already track plenty of stats for penances) To take away from “if you get green circle you must be doing something bad” excuse if nothing else.

So nothing you posted holds up to scrutiny, you just assume “scoreboard can’t possibly reflect skill.” (probably because you’re used to not topping the scoreboard)
Which is entirely unfounded but you must believe in it to try to convince yourself you still had a point.

I don’t get all the green circles in VT2(something tells me most people complaining haven’t actually played VT2 much if at all) every time but when I do it’s because I played better(doesn’t necessarily mean I’m good; it just means I’m better than the other 3 at some things), not because I intentionally went out of my way to farm for green circles. You get green circles naturally by being good; if you didn’t want to spend that tiny amount of effort to get better…you should naturally be fine with not getting it.
Stop trying to pretend others are down to your level by suggesting to hide their tiny achievements just to make yourself feel better. You’re free to not look at scoreboard, turn off chat…etc. but you have no power over others. Harrison Bergeron and all that. (btw that’s not a playbook)

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113

This is very simple, you can play at lower difficulties where “tryhards” don’t actually exist.
Or make a private group, or just don’t look at the scoreboard.
You’re also assuming people are “performing rather than playing” instead of green circle was acquired through just playing the game well…which is usually the case even if not every single time.

Having a scoreboard or not also has literally nothing to do with it. People who want to and actually do better are still going to do better and leave the roleplayers in the dust. The game encourages running ahead of team to not be left behind while searching for resources/books and none of you have any proof that this would or wouldn’t happen with or without scoreboard.

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114

@ComradeHX

Excellent! keep it up! You’re doing great! Thank you.

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115

i would doubt that is true, because tryhards exist in every difficulty, be it that they are goofd players farming lower difficulties for weekly or resource reasons or be it that they arent good enough for higher difficulties and are tryharding anyway.
Malice is boring quickly, i can do damnation as i already said very well even without tryharding or have a performance orientated thinking.
And with some pugs teams it is fun and it can also be fun with the right people in a premade.
but as i also said.
I dont like premades that much, because of the lack of variety.
And i also said it’s a me problem, because i want that varietey, but dont have fun with how the majority plays the game.
I just think this sort of online games aren’t for me.
It requires likeminded people to have fun and work well with and i seem to not fit into the mindset of the majority playing this game.
For example i like to play Chivalry (play since HL2 mod) and are average to good at it, i mostly end up in the middle or the upper third of the scoreboard or even at the top sometimes.
That also relies on the team in general, but not that much as in DT, because the teams are 40 to 64 players. I do well in FFA Servers and even on duels or 3v3 i mostly can stand my ground an have a positive k/d.
The way others play does not influence my experience that much, even beeing in the team losing.
The Game and how it works - well its a PvP medieval brawler/ slasher - is very different and requires also more skill than DT ever will and the learning curve is more into the 500-1000 hrs rather than 50-100 for DT.

btw i’m allways a roleplayer. Doing RP for over 30 years even in DT or in Chivalry, well mostly in my head only immersing :smiley:
Not sure why bash roleplayers, there are lots of good PVP’ers roleplaying, i recommend Mortal Online 2 for you if you are a skilled player and like immersive Worlds, challenging PvE and PvP.
Curious if you can deal with this sort of game :smiley:

The way you and others dont see why you are offending and how you explain it is somethin i need some years to understand. I wont argue about that, because i know i cannot change your way thinking, and why should i want to.

Just for FS, it’s people like you and some others, that i barely read or reply here or play the game at all anymore.

This community is toxic in it’s core and i think FS tried to make the game different and therefore came up with all the RNG to not cater to this sort of performance thinking. But it doesnt help, people are what they are and the RNG frustrates everyone so the solution they thought it would be is not a solution sadly.

@ComradeHX if you want to reach out to people and be a good sports player or make your points taken serious you should overthink rating people beeing bad in general, have broken ego, are insecure, autistic screeching, beeing jealous etc.

It makes your arguments looking not serious or you beeing that self-confident you want to show here.
It rather makes you look like you being the insecure person that needs some self-affirmation and everyone who doesnt agree gets rated beeing insecure, badly skilled, autistic etc.

I know it’s just the lack of communication skills, i think you are one of the good players, like Ratshark obviously also ist, but your social and communicating skills truly lack :smiley:

have fun

116

Respectfully, I doubt that is true, or you would have passed through the maps a couple of time and moved on, instead of having fun for hundreds of hours. Then obviously your feelings are yours.

In my experience, players being good at the game has more to do with their practice in a given difficulty and understanding of the game mechanics, builds and equipment than competitive mindset. So I dont suscribe to the “if you want no scoreboard, play in lower difficulty” point.

And competitive mindset does not automatically equal toxicity. Up to you to be Steve Wiebe rather than Billy Mitchell.

117

if you play V2 with me and i win in stats its because i picked kerillian and stacked movemenet speed and CD and just spammed at everything.

I was a quake 2 CTF player [NL] Mrs Paddok, wasnt pro there really wasn’t the scene. but there are interviews of me on BBC radio 1, i was gamer of the month in CVG and PC gamer , i played on stage at the ministry of Sound , London with thousands of people chanting my name . i Also co ran the Wireplay q2 ctf league, was a pillar of the community trusted with the admin codes was responsible for removing bots toxic players and even allowed to run several of my own servers , i was instrumental in getting a little know mods Action quake ( went on to be action half life then Counter strike) and team fortress out to the wider community.

well thank you i appreciate that , but its not for some reason i have gone in depth in many times on these forums to the myriad of reasons i dont think a competitive scoreboard is good in a co op game.
it doesnt make me feel bad, im just of the opinion V2 was worse for its inclusion and dont want to see the mistake repeated.

its odd because its the pro scoreboard side calling us crybabies and bad , no ones said being good is toxic, thats projection/ego.
and again i have never once blamed toxicity on the scoreboard that was Fatshark. and it wasnt a conspiracy or a theory it was the observed results of running V2

agreed but then i didnt , this is all you projecting . i was just playing a few rounds of overwatch im at best a little under average im old im slow and well past the prime , it doesnt bother me ive been number one in my field held the title for years and walked out a legend . but now im old slow, been there done it its for the young ones and i am fine with just enjoying the game these days.

you see what you have done is resort to the ad homminem fallacy. to save you haveing to debate the point.

read and think about that a moment. so my problem is that im comparing myself to others , finding myself inadequate ? but im in a game that doesnt have that comparison tool and have been about the most vocal about keeping it out.

i mean does that even make sense to you?

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118

True, but im not competetive at all and it can Take the fun away from ne.
I’m playing to have fun, immerse and when people start playing to perform, make min maxing more important than immersion for example i start having less fun as it can break my Immersion. Its just needs people bunny hopping in the Elevator and i completely See its a me Problem, i dont blame anyone !!! :smile:
I also for example would allways choose a more iconic weapon over a mechanical better weapon, but less iconic to the class, e.g. Combat Knife rather iconic for Catachan Jungle Figthers than for a Zealot.
This is just another approach and i know many would disagree and have another approach.
Maybe i said it wrong and it is more like i dont fit with majority of players playing this game and how they approach it.
When there were 90k, 50k, 20k playing it i more often had people what i thought play like me, now that we are at 4000 players and the more hardcore fans of the genre and dedicated players who are left i feel like 9/10 teams i end up playing with in pugs arent for me.
And like i said the solution to find likeminded players for premades is there and i had good groups, but i prefer no voip mostly and just not talk, but become a group of common sense, Well recorded with not much need to communicate beside pinging elites or hordes with the implemented system i use a lot, but many seem to ignore or refuse to use for whatever reason.
Maybe because they communicate this in 3rd Party voip tools. And its not anxiety or lacking communication, social skills its just i want to immerse more, listen to ingame sound and music etc.

119

Yes, I can relate to that, although I would not reduct the “community” to active members of the forums, regardless of how vocal and/or nice we are. I usually don’t have that bad of an experience on Damnation but there are some people or groups who favor a different playstyle than mine.

The many heated thread about scoreboards are almost impossible to land. To me, they are are more rooted in Bartle’s taxonomy groups and their tastes / motives than anything else.

Some readers are familiar with it, but just in case: Richard Bartle is a researcher that established one of the most used player group definition in game design. Asking highly skilled player what they wanted from a game, he got broad answers between people that could not agree for sh*t.

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Long story short (with wild shortcuts) :

  • killers want to assert dominance
  • achievers want to master
  • explorers want to discover and try stuff
  • socializers want a friendly interaction

Can’t we all be friends ? Well no, because these groups also act on each other in a way that increases or decreases other groups enjoyment and population.
But depending on the game, developers usually try to aim at some player groups and strike a balance on their core playerbase, otherwise it does not work on the long run.

The few Fatshark interactions on the scoreboard are fascinating to me, because they seem to want to go in a direction that appeals more to some groups than others as a design intent.

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120

i fully agree on that and also like Bartles taxonomy and i just made some kind of an answer to that in the other post and it will also answer my opinion about this

what i also fully agree with

There is maybe a marketing strategy behind this i also pointed out in the post i linked below.
Sorry if this is split up now.

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121

I have never understood this argument. I never had a problem playing with friends and seeing the scoreboard. And I don’t miss it now. It just doesn’t matter to me. Scoreboard, no scoreboard…whatever. It seems like this should be toward the bottom of the list of things that needs to be fixed.

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123

+1 for a scoreboard again. I simply like statistics, I don’t care how useful or relevant they are. Give me a numerical breakdown of literally every action I take, please.

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124

Well it is a scoreboard. Meaning: going by Bartle’s breakdown it’s pure killer/achiever stuff. Meaning even if the scoreboard tried to track things like social interactions of “new item spawn locations found” those score bits wouldn’t matter to the social/explorer types (and ironically just by tracking them, they’d become “Achiever” type activities!).

The point of a good scoreboard is to be A Better Tutorial. It’s not a tutorial where you’re in some special mission; you’re just playing the game, and after the match you learned that the player who took way less damage dodge-slid about a thousand times more than your 0 dodge-slides. A really well-done scoreboard would also let you then mouse-over that part because some of you are still wondering what a dodge-slide even is, and the game would tell you how to do it and what it does (including some example attacks it avoids). But I’m not saying it just needs to track dodge-slides, what I’m really saying is it needs to somehow smartly identify the main places where your skill is lacking and call those out as ways you could improve (and sure, it could trumpet your successes too).

125

you are now playing the victim after getting called out for your toxic behavior and insults that anyone who is better than you is a bad person.

the audacity.

126

im not going to address a toxic persons argument that is not in good faith. Both of you are way out of line making generalizations and anyone who dares stand up to this bulling is projecting or evil.

im done with you.

127

The funny thing was that tinybike was self-admittedly pro-scoreboard and padds was pretty open it to previously, but it was your arguments, or your way of arguing that pushed them towards being anti-scoreboard. You might want to reflect on that.

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128

He’s to busy analyzing and rating others and need not reflect or improve anymore, because he’s already so good as you can read across the Forums.
He isnt guilty that he is so good and everyone else is just bad and plays victim, is gaslighting, narcistic and whatever Dr. of Psychology has analysed and rated about you.

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129

i would love to see a detailed scoreboard at the end. Yes damage isnt all there is, so just add some values like the amount of stagger you inflicted and some other support-like values and everybody can hunt some green circles.

this awful culture nowadays, that nobody should be offended no matter how weak they perform and everybody needs to win a price etc. etc. has no place in videogames (and nowhere else).

what is wrong about when the system tells people that are bad in the game what they did wrong?

130

But nobody wants that, even the advocates of a scoreboard explained that nobody is after green circles, it just happens by the way beeing better than others because cooperation is the key element and nobody is competetive about his performance and everyone is putting himsrlf into service for the team and cooperation.

No?