Yeah, revolver is awkward in 5+. I’ve been playing hi 5’s with revolver just because I think the quickdraw play style is fun, but no question it’s underpowered, especially compared to bolter. For people who haven’t tried this, I recorded a couple hi intensity damnation missions with revolver, which I think illustrate pretty well the manner in which revolver is underpowered/awkward:
(I’m the right screen in the first vid, and upper left screen in the second.)
Imo the main changes that would make revolver more competitive are:
significantly larger ammo pool (and possibly larger clip size – is an actual six-gun too much to ask for?)
increased headshot damage – feel like revolver should be able to 1 shot most human targets if you land a headshot, which would also fix the annoying knockdown behavior
faster reloads. Specifically, they should fix the weird thing where you keep ejecting your spent casings over and over again; if I’m interrupted while reloading and have already shaken out the casings, that part of the animation should not repeat. (Note the revolver in those vids above has base 80% reload speed and a +10% reload speed perk – and reloading still feels slow!)
helbores share this too btw. No sway, hitscan. Like I said, the one thing that revolvers have going for them is that they can damage elites in a horde mass, but often have to take an entire cylinder to do so. Other than that, they’re outclassed by several other weapons.
I play a zealot.
Sometimes it isnt viable to rush that 40 man blob of dreg shooters and dreg gunners. The stairs at the beginning of water treatment are a great example.
The rest of that post is just silly. I never argued to make anything super duper. I specifically argued for making some weapons better than others, but having those weaker weapons have key niches that might make a player choose them (besides memes and RP). And that all weapons should be viable. Hell, my new favorite toy is the chain axe and its widely regarded as one of the worst choices. Though it should be one of the best. Better than the normal axes.
Adequate balance would be about getting the power scale correct, and then adding new toys regularly that fit into that power scale. The Kantrael MG12 vs the Bolter is a perfect example. The MG12 lacks armor peircing but its high ammo efficiency and precision and rapid fire make it ideal for clearing anything else, and especially enemy shooters. But its a WEAKER weapon in lore. It is hitting its key niche. The bolter has low ammo and reserves, struggles on followup shots, but great and adaptable damage. This means a vet or zealot using the bolt gun is going to struggle to quickly clear that 40man dreg blob but kantrael MG12 man can do it quickly.
Awww cmon, we finally got a 5 shot cylinder large caliber break action revolver and you want to lameify it? Lets just focus on what would give it a niche worth taking.
Can we all just agree Malice is the “lore accurate” difficulty or something so people like you don’t ruin the game? Stop this lore argument rubbish, it’s a Tide game at least as much as it’s a 40K game, there are expectations on it from long time Tide vets to a large degree as well and at some point you need to actually acknowledge your preferences aren’t the only ones that should be catered to here. You come across as an astounding egotist with how many assumptions you make about what the general player base must want. Clearly you’re describing what YOU want from the game so stop pretending it’s anything other than that.
I’m half serious about the difficulty level point though. Clearly you can’t have all the difficulty levels be lore accurate so why not base how things behave on Malice on the lore rather than Damn? Heck why even have difficulty levels if they’re all gonna follow dumbass rules about enemies always being one shot by certain stuff. That leaves no room to provide any challenge.
Oh wait aren’t you the guy who thinks taking down a group of basic melee enemies is difficult for Vet without power sword? Interesting how you keep making suggestions to make the game as easy as possible.
How do you still not get this? It’s balance against the enemies and content itself that matters here. Anything that overperforms has a noticeably adverse effect on difficulty. I don’t play Damn for casual and consistent wins, I play it to get my ass kicked and if it doesn’t do that why the hell not? I don’t care if my team mate gets more kills than me I care if there is a balance between what we the players can do vs what the game can throw at us.
I am 'tide vet and a fan of both fantasy and 40k. Furthermore everyone is discussing their preferences and SO ARE YOU. (Which is fine) I am also representing the preferences of a lot of people both in real life and online that i talk to about this product whom I have reached a general consensu with. I do not claim to present a perfectly representative sample of all possible ideas, i represent a faction of ideas that i bring to the table for discussion. The only person who has made a claim that their ideas are the only acceptable ones is in fact you, by means of inversion.
Oh and your ad hominem was weak.
Sure you can. Making enemies bullet soaks is not a substitute for good gameplay design around difficulty in any case.
Literally no one has made that claim. That straw man belongs to you. Unless you mean my proposals to make ogryn able to oneshot most chaff in melee on first target from a seperate thread, in which case i stand by that from a balance and lore and rule of cool perspective.
No, we can’t. Its a poor proposal in the first place. The lore should be one of many guide posts to how the whole game feels. The rule of cool another. Balancing things to maximize variety another.
I’m not playing DT for a week or two now, but i still can guess revolver suck on reload speed (all but vet and yet reloading still slow compare to time on target for other weaps).
Blessing with 2 secs boost for +x% (25 if not 30) is no go, when full time reload takes much more time. Is it equilibrium movie? 2 shots, dodge, upload 2 extra, shoot 2 times, dodge, reload… yay, warzone experience. YET ITS NOT A COD AND NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE ONE (C).
Too weak for damnation and for balance sake it shall be boosted against weakspots. Logical more staggering against carapace of course with same AP action to be fair, it’s hand cannon but not as great as rifle cartridge.
Improving would benefit skill over spam and it wouldn’t hurt newcomers with bad aim on lower difficulties, yet save high-end gunners.
And i bet, reloading animation bug with full 5 empty shells drops, even when you had only x bullets of 5 is still there. Funny and stupid.
What so ever, my personal suggestion about universal loader for empty drum seems not so popular, but it would make equal reload time for non-kerillian class players. Your loss.
I have given up the revolver… too weak seriously.
I don’t care of the reload speed, it is even good on a veteran. So increasing it could make it too good for the veteran.
I just want more ammos, and “LORE SPEAKING” it is more coherent that the revolver has more ammos than the bolter.
Bolter is .75 caliber (28mm). It has twice the ammo of a revolver (caliber .45 - 11.43mm) or more than a shotgun ( caliber 12 - 18,5mm). Actually the revolver has 52 ammos in your bag when Bolter has 95 (values for zealot). So if we have to follow the lore, we MUST invert ammos of revolver and Boltgun.
By the way, I really don’t think that the lore would forbid a slight weakspot damages increase.
I really think that the revolver needs it.
The boltgun stores its rounds in magazines, and they are at a number that is actually quite a bit less than what a military load out would be. 6 magazines. Usually the average soldier would carry around 300 rounds or 10 magazines. But thats fine, it IS bolt gun ammo. Its heavy and no doubt takes up a lot of room.
The real weird thing here is the lack of speed loaders for the revolver. Imagine running around with pockets spilling over with like 150 rounds of loose ammo. Jingle jingle its the INQUISITION BABY.
But seriously like 150 rounds would be fine from a gameplay standpoint.
Totally with you on this point.
I think if we were to summarize the thread the fairly uniform opinion is:
Even if, I understand what you say about magazines… what I say is that, if we can carry x ammos for the bolter (and the weight and space of the magazines), we should be able to carry 2 times this amount of ammo when we use a revolver.
Bullets of the revolver are smaller, so there is NO reason to get less ammo with the revolver than with the bolter.
Good that revolver gives you sprint speed then? Also I run revolver on Preacher all the time. It isn’t bolter, flamer or even autogun in terms of raw power, but its great for a quick snap shot at a sniper, special or elite, especially with Point Blank and Crucial Rullete.
Like a bunch of other folks, I’m more in favor of a bigger ammo count/sustain, better armor piercing, and/or a bigger weak spot bonus.
Its special attack could use some work as well, though. The pistol whip is pitiful, especially when you’re usually better off just swapping to melee and using that. I’d prefer an alternate reload instead, where we could still load rounds one at a time by default, but the special attack would use a magnetic speedloader, which would be faster if all/most of the chambers were empty.
Magnetic speedloader could be cool or moon clips. Use the weapon special to reload this way any time you want but it wastes any unfired ammo. Adds a nice skill based mechanic that gives you more uptime.
Today’s release of the agrapina shotgun with its special slug attack is exactly what I wish was a special attack on a stub revolver. Special, explosive/high-velocity bullet that can knock the bulkwark’s shield open:
It’s actually even open up Bulwark’s shield with normal round lol.
Edit : Now that I actually tested it in actual match it seem pretty inconsistent, it only do that on the first few rounds then they just become immune to it afterward. better just use slug shot I guess.