Remove the Beastmen from all the maps

Old maps’ spawning points aren’t optimized for the beastmen. They just spawn too near or in strange places.
Last time I was fighting a beastmen horde in HoM, in the room on the roof before the wooden bridge to the elevator to Magnus tower, and a gor hit me appearing from thin air.

Considering they deal a tad too much damage, their hordes are mainly gors, they have annoying features like the archers, IMHO they should be removed from all the maps, except the ones built with their spawning in mind.

P.S. I bet whoever designed the Bestigor charge had very low grades in physics.

3 Likes

I’m fine with Beastmen in forested areas, but in HoM they make no sense. Wasn’t there specifically an update targeting them spawning in urban areas?

In my humble opition, ungor arches are the most infuriating, badly designed and no-fun-to-play-against enemy. Possibly the only one I’d put in that category. They aren’t even considered specials to talent procs despite having ranged attacks, making them utter waste of ammunition. I’d rework them completely to spawn and behave like proper specials, having smaller group size, slower attack speed, more health and spawning with sting.

I absolutely loathe how they follow the party on cataclysm, peppering players from a distance that’s unreachable by shotguns or other anti-horde ranged weapons. Using a handgun on them chews up precious ammo meant for disablers, so you just let them chip away your health until they get close enough at a drop or break los.

FS could even go far enough as to give them ammo counters, so after a quiver is spent they just run to you and engage with their spears. Problem solved, no more infinite arrow spam when you attempt to revive.

6 Likes

Fatshark has attempted to patch them out of city maps but it appears to have failed, a lot. I am fairly sure i´ve seen them in the pit as well as in blightreaper even long after those patches went through.

Apart from that they really ought to have friendly fire active too. They should not be able to shoot through 3 armors and hit but they can.

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Moreover they have too much perks:
they stagger you, damage you, stop you while moving, etc.

Yes they have very few HPs but, at Legend for example, they spawn in throngs and so you need a lot of ammo to eliminate them.

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I thought they do have FF? There’s that achievement to have them score the killing shot on a minotaur after all. It might be their arrow cleave is too high, ie being able to hit single targets despite dozens of others being in the way.

I mainly don’t like the jank with beastmen, e.g. minotaur spinning 180 so fast you have to basically sense that it’s coming to not eat the first hit and stuff like that. Or random ungors not getting staggered when you push or shield bash the group.

On very open maps ungor archers sometimes have a bit too much range if you ask me, but otherwise I like having them as an enemy. You can anyway make them switch from bows to spears by having someone move near to them. And you don’t even need a shield to block their arrows.

1 Like

I’m more getting annoyed by their janky animations. Gors/ungors now tend to have these attack patterns where it feels like the attack should hit at x timing so I block/dodge for it but the actual impact happens 0,25- 0,5 seconds later which is extremely annoying. The animation and impact just don’t line up properly in my experience.

Archers are annoying and there should probably be some system in place to stop having 10 stack of them in unreachable positions but other than that meh.

5 Likes

From what i can tell the FF only applies to monsters, i´ve seen em shoot right through normal mobs&armor.

Ogre, spawn and troll can also do that, it´s just a case of aggro switches which the mino does more.

I´ve had cases where i am fighting a horde in an open field with a group of arches on the other side, i am deep in melee but somehow 10+ arrows land on me and i dont see any beastman even flinch which just feels dirty.

2 Likes

Honestly, they should be optional.

I have much stronger words to express how I feel about Beastmen, but the polite version is that if they were removed from every map other than Dark Omen, the game would be better for it.

I held off buying Winds of Magic for over a year after it was released just because of Beastmen, yet I was still disappointed when I finally caved and picked it up in a sale for the weapons.

They take the core gameplay loop and make it worse.

I expected my hate for them to lessen in time as I got more familiar with the correct counterplay for them. It didn’t.

They just aren’t enjoyable to fight against and many of the core levels weren’t designed with them in mind so when they show up it can be exceptionally egregious.

The Wargor banners can be fun to counterplay against and it forces interesting decisions from players (kill before they plant, push to take down the banner, or retreat, etc), but too many at once or in inappropriate tilesets and there is no enjoyment to be found, only suffering.

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What I like most about Beastman is that they don’t have shields. Honestly, I like most things about Beastman. No Berserker but armored elite charges on you. Flag Bearer making you move from your safe zone. Mino constanrly pushing you so that you can’t park the monster like Rat Ogre. They are challenging ideas and fun to play against, and it would have been my favorite faction to fight against IF they didn’t come up with archers. They are just so annoying. Not really threatening, or hard to deal with; just annoying, as each one of them means -1 ammo and nothing more, not to mention that they add extra stress against characters like GK.

I wish they had limited ammo, so that after like 10 shots, they are bound to use their spear. Or replace them with a single unit that does ranged attack like Ratling. Centigor would be a good choice.

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I guess my gripe is a little different - because they are stronger, bigger, and there are fewer of them, it’s much harder to trigger abilities that require hitting 2+ of them at the same time. Even during hoards. That’s a little annoying. Also with the archers and chargers, they spread out a lot more than ratmen and chaos marauders.

The headbutt attack the various enemies do are also not obviously attacks so sometimes they hit me when I think they’re just doing random movements.

Minotaur’s hitbox and push box don’t seem to match either, so I often feel like I just can’t reach him with shorter weapons, even when pressing my face into his axes.

Limited ammo on the archers is a great idea.

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They do, but I have never seen them basically skip the turn animation and hit you instantly the way the minotaur does. I’m always able to avoid eating their hits when they do that, but with the mino I have to predict it and have my block up/be dodging when it happens, not after.

Ah, so it’s still just like how it was back in the beta? Yeah, I haven’t been in a situation like that recently, but they should at least do damage to the beastmen that are in the way. Cleaving like one or two would be okay, not a whole pat or horde.

Mino does it the most by far but the others can also do extremely fast turn-attacks.

Yea

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They do but I can’t remember one outright skipping the animation the way mino does, they just turn super fast but I normally have a small window to react. With mino I have to watch where he is in his attack animation vs whoever he is currently focusing and act preemptively in case he target switches to me, with the other bosses I’m usually good if I dodge asap when they change targets.

But that could be the fact he launches into his attack pattern faster than they do slams etc.

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Other bosses can do aggro swaps without animations if someone pulls aggro off it before the animation finishes, i.e., don’t shade ult the monster during the aggro swap animation or you’ll instantly pull aggro.

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They appear in the Ubereik’s maps too.

Frankly, I don’t think that cutting them out if making them “optional” is the way to go. I’d rather see them even more balanced with less bugs. Remember - during WoM launch they were in such a worse state: that stack of 1 beastman-horde… flying archers etc…

I’m pretty sure they’ve fixed what they wanted and now they spawn less then they used to.

Amen to that - these guys are real annoying for careers with limited ranged abilities. You have to run to each and every of them to finish them off, cause leaving them behind is too dangerous. LoS is a viable option but is not always possible…

1 Like
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