Rebalance Gunners in Havoc or Apply Gunner Resistance to All Gunner-Type Enemies

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

Since the classes have been buffed and Auric has effectively become Heresy or Damnation, making it no longer enjoyable to play, I’ve recently been playing Havoc 40 a bit more.

Gunners are extremely threatening in Havoc, so most players heavily rely on builds that can neutralize them, such as Gold Toughness, Bubble Shield, Smoke, and Taunt. This leaves very little build diversity.

I don’t think playing Slidetide all the time is fun, and it only solves a small part of the problem anyway.

Currently, Gunner Resistance only applies to Elite Gunners and has absolutely no effect on Reapers, Shooters, or Stalkers.

In Havoc, taking sustained fire from just one or two Mob Gunners can leave you almost instantly dead. The punishment for getting caught in their fire is simply too severe.

At least in Havoc, either Gunners should be rebalanced or Gunner Resistance should be extended to cover all Gunner-type enemies. This would make Gunners feel less unfair to fight against and allow for greater build diversity.

2

Fatshark treating Gunners as ranged chaff enemies was problematic even before Havoc. On some Auric seeds Gunners appear more than basic ranged shooters (especially Moebian guardsmen, it’s the rarest enemy in the game for some reason).

I feel like Gunners should be rebalanced to serve as rarer and more lethal “roadblock” enemies and basic shooters should be more common and perhaps a little less deadly/accurate.

3

If you are constantly dying to small shooters on havoc it some on the team is not doing their job.
Also hate to break it to you but Havoc is about being unfair. but ironically they just keep making us stronger patch by patch.

4

Either make it so that not all Gunners have aimbot-level accuracy, or adjust their accuracy, damage, or rate of fire depending on the enemy type.

Thanks to Resist, Elite Gunners aren’t that much of a threat anymore. In fact, Shooters and Stalkers are far more dangerous.

5

idk man you kinda just walked into the open directly into a killzone directly infront of shooters in their prime range with no damage resistance nodes or any evasive manuvers like sliding or taking cover. i’m sympathetic to people struggling with ranged combat in this game but in that particular instance it’s entirely on you for getting hit

6

I just wanted to show that the penalties for being hit by a mob shooter are simply too severe.

7

Not really. In the clip, they come out of smoke cloud from explosion and instantly go down from 100 toughness to zero.

It’s not like they run out right in the open of a big area while they could see shooters are hiding behind cover.

So you’ve never had situations where 2 normal shooters come out behind you and instantly down you on a squishy class in Havoc? I find it hard to believe.

8

@Vertraxxx I support your post but your toughness drains a bit too fast in the clip. Looks like some key talents are missing. 20% less damage from ranged enemies, 60% TDR every 8 seconds, 25% on dodge etc. While basic shooters definitely are overtuned, I think you have something wrong with your build.

Now wait until you meet contaminated stimms shooters, like yellow stimm scab stalker or blue stimm scab stalker. Those take like 3+ revolver headshots to die, they shoot even faster without pauses and can even kill Ogryn in one volley if you don’t start dodging right away.

9

Yes having extremely OP ranged enemies makes the combat and gameplay much less enjoyable in this very melee-centric game.

Like, FS clearly push players into melee with just a dash of ranged added in…yet Havoc seems to make every gunner a sniper and you just end up spending 3/4 of the mission hiding around corners or inside bubbles etc…especially as Ogryn who is the size of a bus and gunners seem to target first even if other players are closer.

I’d rather they increased the dmg of melee enemies in Havoc and reduce the ranged dmg or accuracy. Then you could have more fun fighting for survival instead of all the boring waiting for gunners to reload after their 20 second aimbot sniper splurge.

If people want to see less PBB in havoc then fix them gunners so they’re not the biggest threat in the game.

10

Unless someone pointed it out already, gunner DR works on reapers on top of elite gunners. Curios need a complete overhaul with more generalised options, such as melee, ranged, explosion etc imo.

Mutant DR anyone?

11

Of course, there are no gaps in the build. I’m using Hubris, Good Balance, Shield of contempt and Wait in Line, as well as I Shall Not Fall, although the latter doesn’t help much in this particular situation.

I’m also using Shred on the Catachan, so I’m running Scourge and Enduring Faith as well.

12

I don’t mind it, when there’s lots of Horde density, to keep toughness up, but when there isn’t it can be annoying. You literally need Havoc mods to get Horde density too.

Also you can get chipped by little gunners through a fight, but sometimes one will randomly 1tap your toughness and 10-20% HP out of nowhere.

13

they kinda did tho. they ran directly infront of two shooters that were directly behind cover in a very long corridor specifically designed to zone them out. like i feel like that would be perfectly fine and just punishment for not reacting to that, a la slave rat taking 1/2 hp from someone just not paying attention to them like back in vermintide. it’s just a failure on a micro level that just happens because someone was just not attentive against an enemy that the game’s dynamics is built on.
now I WOULD sympathize them being unable to see due to the visiblity of the gunner exploding infront of them removing the precious seconds of them unable to see what’s happening, but that’s not really the game’s fault but just darktide’s visiblity being awful with all the unncessary particle effects especially with orgryns.

sometimes- and that is an annoyance when there is like ambience shooters that come from behind with no warning but most times when people complain about shooters in havoc it mostly just stems from shooters infront in which the game already gives them ample warning and reasonable methods to react to.
like if it gets to a point where shooters are already a huge problem, I’ve commited several mistakes on a micro and macro level that could’ve prevented it in the first place. Consult the survivaiblity onion

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if a range enemy is being that much of a burden on me, i’ve already failed on the failing doing these things;
1 Being positioned behind a wall (this counters like 90% of incidents)
2) not agroing ranged when I don’t have to at all, by either simply waiting for my team to actually get ready to engage ranged enemies by us shooting all at once or diving all at once (like don’t shoot every reaper you see when your team isn’t ready to commit to shooting or diving
3) failing to react in time from when the game’s myriad of warnings that I was about to get shot at (the digital wooshing sound, enemy barks, lensflare warnings and shots being fired)
4) divorcing myself from being inside a killzone by moving back into cover and until i’m ready to engage (This drives me up a wall when people just insist on fighting melee enemies infront of range when they can simply NOT do that (taunt ogryn))
5) Slide (The thing that makes you immune to being shot), or the dozen of various anti-range tools that everyone has- class or not specific or not. Supression, smokes, shields, or just plain stagger and etc
6) Have DR to reduce on the chances you do get shot (This also solves a lot of problems and what OP is frankly just lacking in the first place). This is kinda a build thing but also depends on your ability to proc it consistently. I don’t think there’s any class that doesn’t have really good DR anymore in which they struggle with solo shooters anymore… maybe psyker? But then you have dome and empathic so like is it really
7) Have actual toughness when you’re engaged in range and try to proc toughness making tools (often natural by just playing the game or commiting to attacking stuff but stuff like inspiring barrage or brace can come in a pinch)

14

This kinda reads like “don’t engage with the enemy in this melee-centric tide game”… lol

15

Massed Moebian Shooters are far more deadly than elite gunner spam. They’re a lot more accurate, actually take and peek cover (unlike gunners, who just unload standing up and tend to strafe into the open), and can’t get tagged/highlighted.

If you’ve ever experienced getting pinned down by mass lasfire from afar it’s more likely these guys shooting from cover than elite gunners because the gunners are easily picked off. But if you have a tauntgryn or just push forward at a decent tempo these guys might as well not exist because they’re super fragile and love to bayonet charge into melee (side note: these little guys are the most badass enemy unit in the game because they will bayonet charge an Ogyrn, you don’t see player Vets doing that; side side note: these guys have the best melee animations in all of darktide, they swing like the gun/bayonet combo has actual weight and do rolls/sprint to gain momentum/dodge).

16

“don’t be penetrated” is a universal advice for life :+1:

17

Yeah, in the current state of the game it feels like their roles have been switched. Gunners are just spammed thoghtlessly and fuel your on-kill talents, basic shooters do all the heavy lifting with giga burst damage.

18

We got your back, homie.

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What I find interesting is how Havoc changes sh…all over TDR stats, but general DR and few builds shrug off those far better. I never liked how shooters and gunners operate in a game like Darktide. Bot behaviour is (understandably) very limited and shooting mechanics on the side of players leave a lot to be desired.

Regarding dealing with shooters in DT…we go from “just be immune” options, to disable their “AI” options, to camp corner for 5 minutes, slowly working through the forest of shooters and elite gunners. This problem isn’t getting ever solved. This is why a full HP, full T, sh…loads of golden T char will still die in 2 seconds of fire from two trash pandas hidden behind a garbage can.

19

I actually 100% agree with this.. I’d be interested in seeing how this plays out conceptually..

20

agreed, with how many shooters there are, they do way too much damage. they are by far the most dangerous enemy in havoc and make the mode unenjoyable with how much effort you have to put in to not die instantly to this mob. they have an unparalleled impact on team builds and when in sufficient numbers completely stall map progress for the longest amount of time compared to anything else