Re-rework veteran?

Looks like either everyone contributed evenly or was specialized in something and did far more for that role, but just wasn’t rewarded as much points because of how the mod arbitrarily weighs points.

Looking at the bottom one, one of them was a Smite Psyker that locked down everything, given their Stagger stat. One was a tank Ogryn who cleared out most of the stuff during hordes, given their Blocked attack stats and Lesser Enemies score. And the other Ogryn seems have to done more boss damage than the rest of you combined. But the mod decided that what you did was worth the most points.

Scriers gaze is currently highest damage you can achieve while lowering you CD easily by quelling and keeping its uptime to around 18-20 seconds on a 30 second cooldown (reduced by 4% curios ((12%)) with the 10% cd from talents and 5% from team elite kills. (6.6 seconds shaved off) meaning you will usually almost have your ult back after using scriers gaze and its good to use during hordes, elites, bosses… anything really.


Yeah that can be annoying.

Yeah, I just played a game with it. Was pretty fun. Played a game with exec stance right after. Pretty fun!

MF doesn’t help semi-autos more often than not even at max stacks. They’re better off with Focus Fire, or literally nothing.

The opportunity cost is barely worth it, if worth it at all.

MF is such a simple design fix.

Make it gain stacks on kill, and more on headshot kill. No timer.

Lose 50% of maximum possible stacks on miss.

Can’t use autoguns with MF now. You can now boost it to not be a big nothing burger on single shot weapons’ breakpoints without worrying about making things like MK V even more op.

It is now thematically appropriate to its name, and will no longer hinder movement in a movement based game.

Quoted myself from another thread.

Subjective. I had zero difficulty on any of them. On veteran I had to at least switch, and a test weapons to find ones that were most cohesive with the tree.

In terms of opportunity cost? I’m being fully objective. A crit weapon’s pysker build doesn’t care about using blitz when they can have the highest gun damage in the game with little to no downtime on Aurics.

Exe Stance makes you give up a lot of things to use it, and they aren’t better than VoC, or …infiltrate …sorry I just vomited in my mouth.

You can be forced into melee when things get bad, and the ability becomes useless. So even as a ranged build you have more value in VoC. You cannot make the same claim about Melee/Gunpsyker. There is nothing better for them.

Would probably need to be tuned down for vet. That much is certain. That was more of a wishful thinking kind of deal though.

Ok, I’m willing to just take you at your word on this given how strong the zealot build you recommended was. I know I tend to run the less ideal weapons on characters simply because I want the style points. It could be Im overselling how strong exec stance is because I am good with the pistol and the pistol is strong rn.

Can you PM me your psyker loadout so I can try it out?

The reason I find the vets tree to be thensecond easiest to navigate is because of how horizontal all the nodes are. The main weakness is there is little arborization after your ult. Youre right to say none are hard though.

Dont forget to pm me that psyker loadout

What’s wrong with the Infiltrate?

I’ve rolled pretty good Infantry Lasgun XII and was trying to make it work with Exec’s Stance. The fact that my build revolved around ranged playstyle and at the same I was in many missions forced to play rather melee given the circumstances, it was kind of frustrating. I tried really hard but it just didn’t work.

Then I tried version with the Infiltrate and honestly that was the answer! You’re happily shooting and when something bothers you you just disengage, relax, reload your weapon, reposition, mark next target with the Focus Target! and when you’re ready to engage again you have the Marksmen and Surprise Attack waiting for you when most enemies just ignores you.

It might not be the most team friendly build but if it allows you to do what you’re good at, it definitelly contributes to the team effort and it’s the closest thing to the sniper like build I’ve tried so far.

It kills teammates. Objectively. We can call it skill issue on their end, or w/e, but I prefer keeping both them and myself safe simultaneously.

It’s fine in full premades. My distate for it comes primarily from being a solo queue player, and I’ve yet to see a veteran use it fully responsibly outside of hacking events.

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I disagree. Infiltrate gives you free hands to do whatever is needed. You can trow grenades at hordes, take out specials / elites / ranged targets, revive team mates, do objectives, etc.

Or you can also run ahead ignoring everything because people loves to do that for some reason… but that’s not the skill issue. It’s the dagger issue! Just kidding :smiley: Unfortunately no ability can help with the ignorance or lack of awareness.

I’ve been playing with my friend today using this build and it’s been great fun. I’m not perfect and sometimes might do the wrong call but I’m quite confident to say that I’m decent at marking and deleting immediate threats and that definitelly saves lifes. Anyway it’s a great ability that supplements precise shooting playstyle that I enjoy quite a bit.

Maybe you could try play with the Infiltrate more often to see things from different perspective.

You have to think of it in terms of opportunity cost.

VoC provides overshield for you, and anyone within coherency which is quite generous. Overshield provides health damage immunity from bursters, snipers, and overheads.

VoC provides space. One of the most important things in Tide games. With space you can dodge, and it has value offensively as well since you can use that to reload, shoot specials, open up bosses to massive damage from free headshots.

Infiltrate has no overshield. An aggro redirect allowing for backstabs to happen, or specials you may not have known we’re going for you to go onto another. You create space for yourself, but at a great cost, and pressure to other team mates.

It can be used for clutching more safely (for you) than VoC, but that’s often a result of having used it in the first place. It’s that self fulfilling prophecy of building to clutch so you end up having to clutch because you miss out on so many amazing utilities from not using VoC.

The pick ups in rough situations can still lead to the downed person’s death anyways. A lot less likely with VoC.

Also its faux logic that you need infiltrate’s space to do your job.


Let’s use this clip as an example both as merits of VoC vs Infiltrate.

Breaking down what happens in this clip:

I see the Zealot (Kinia) is low, and about to get murdered by a special wave. My team is behind me in the narrow hallway (this is important in a bit).

I go to do my best to peel for them because the situation is 100% a down to capture scenario with the amount of fire that’s going to be happening.

They proc their one shot protection, and just dip using their Stealth ability. EDIT 2: I’m not sht talking the Zealot. They did their best, and they were good teammate even if I personally disapprove of their build choice. I just wanted to add this addendum.

This nearly kills me.

Now you the mess that puts me in is self evident and how incredible VoC was for keeping me alive equally so, but what would have happened if I was using Infiltrate?

My team dies. Plain and simple. They’re distracted and looking the opposite direction in a narrow hallway (at least until they clue in way later that I need help); plus they’ve already gotten used to relying on me entirely for special deletion. Complacency is its own threat.

I would have had free reign to shoot all the specials in the back with the 90% threat reduction probably, but would I be able to kill the amount that came at me funneling into that hall before they murdered my team?

Probably not. I’m using an op meta build weapon as well. Now you can make your statements about how that’s on them, but when solo queuing I don’t know what my team can handle. Whether they’re having an off day, or just an off game. It doesn’t matter.

There’s an implicit rudeness to putting your burdens on strangers. Game, or not. So in short: Ew. Infiltrate.

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Stealth always means a bad time for someone, depending on how it’s implemented. Stealth when an enemy is mid-overhead, either they continue to hit you, which feels bad for you, or they change target mid-swing and it feels bad for whoever is the recipient of that hit. Too many things in DT can change target mid-swing already and with no visual or audio cues either. Compare VT2 chaos warrior with crusher, for example.


because you are bad at not being in the line of fire. i mostly play vet and i have no problems. did you use to rely on camo or the DR from ulting to mitigate damage?

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My first two primary loadouts are using VoC. I just wanted to try something else. And I believe that the Infiltrator has someting to offer but you really need to play with it to understand. For me dropping agro is more about skiping less treatening stuff in front of me to deal with the bigger threat behind sooner. And of course at times to avoid going down. More imporantly you can go all out when enemies are ignoring you. “Leave me alone so that I can destroy you faster, Bulwark.”

I don’t really want to play “what if”. You can find as many positives as negatives and it’s fun for me to figure that out or learn from my mistakes.

That’s your prerogative. It is as I mentioned objectively a skill with a negative impact on your team even if you can negate, or potentially go positive on the cost.

Non stealth skills have only a potential positive even if it can be a smaller positive. There is no negative to whiffing the placement of a shield wall on psyker other than the loss of a CD.

I’m not trying to change people’s minds on it. People almost never change their minds. I’m simply justifying/qualifying my statement about Infiltrate being gross in my eyes.

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I disagree with other skills not having negative impact, e.g. you want to slice heads of the enemies in front of you and suddently they go down instead because of VoC which only prolongs their suffering. Boubble might affect visual clarity or pull people to strategicly disadvanategious position, etc.

Anyway I think we’re going little bit off so I will say this last thing. Nothing is just better or worse. That’s matter of 1D perspective. Things might simply be different.

Bit of a reach there my guy. Only one where it would potentially inversely affect the TTK would be a crusher, but their recovery animation still allows for easy headshots. Everything else is such a fast kill it’s not really going to hurt it.

To help your argument though I can see it lowering the clear speed of a Powersword which uses brutal momentum. So yes. Minor edge case that won’t get anyone killed.

I personally haven’t had it affect my visual clarity, but I can entertain that one. As for the latter portion I’ve yet to have that happen. At least on aurics its pretty easy to recognize when the bubble spot is bad. Hint: It’s full of crushers.

The bubble itself tends to be a good hold spot even if its geographically stupid because of how reliable it is at negating ranged threats. So I can’t even entertain this one though maybe if it makes people do a premature drop down that would have been better held from high ground?

Maybe that one.

Either way all of these examples are a stretch, and perhaps not the core of the argument you are making but they require one of these:

I’m ok with agreeing to disagree the same way I was open to having my mind changed which is why I did extensive testing of Infiltrate with 2 of my friends and a bot. My conclusions weren’t made on conjecture.

But yeah. Agree to disagree. Hope I didn’t come off as uncivil.

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Yeah cope. reviving them 23 times because they can’t survive poop. Tanking for me to do damage? LMFAO 3k damage taken and 20 team deaths. More like dying over and over and made my run difficult af. LOL Interpret or cope it how you want LMFAO

I don’t have a dog in this fight but that last scoreboard you’re referring to paints a dismal picture, quick glance shows something was very, very off in there, even for a Maelstrom.

Not knowing the specifics of that particular match, I can only surmise that based on my experience, 3 people there were way over their heads and would likely benefit from dropping down a diff and work on some fundamentals.

Your interpretation is weird to me.

Yeah, I don’t get how you’re seeing it either. Enemies don’t vanish into thin air if no one deals with them, and it looked like everyone was uniquely focused on dealing with certain sets of enemies.

The thing that did stand out is that the OP grabbed almost ALL the resources, like no one else even got a chance to touch the stuff.

Like plasteel? Good news it’s team-wide.
Oh did you mean ammo? More good news, you come back at half ammo when you respawn.
Even more good news, most psykers don’t use any ammo and melee focuses builds, often Ogryns, tend to use less.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re playing dumb or not, but you’re clearly skirting around the obvious thing that was already pointed out to you: 20 team deaths.

I guess facetanking and button mashing is considered an effective strategy by some here.

I’m looking at the score as an indicator of behavior and what people were likely doing in the game. Like it’s very unusual for one person to have taken almost all the resources. Were they not with the rest of the team? Did everyone else just decide to not touch anything and leave it all for him? Were there people who quit and the listed people were back filled mid mission? If so, that would explain why the revive and rescue number were so high.

It would be interesting if the scoreboard added a downed/died stat so we could see if that correlates.