Case and Point, exactly what @Wodenaz772 wrote.
1 Like
OK so, starting from the top of this quote pile, lol
The reason i say you arenāt taking Communion to maximise so much as making possible the generation of Warp Charges is that, In your own words, You donāt need to BB much because WCs flow from that Feat.
Iām asserting that Warp Charges being tied exclusively to BB kills is a pain point. Something that feels bad to play around.
Youāre asserting that Warp Charges are fine as they are because you have Communion and thus get free WCs as opposed to having to laboriously spam BB to build them manually.
Its a case of: Getting my own Warp Charges is a hassle, so Iāll make the team generate them for me.
The simple change i propose in making Warp Charges generate automatically as a baseline through active gameplay, not JUST Brain Burst kills is intended to free us all from requiring Communion to get enough Warp Charges to play with.
It opens out the Psykers viable build options.
We should not need to take a Feat to fix our passives XD
That said, the Feat could easily remain as is, altering literally nothing about how you currently gain your WCs, but other builds become more viable thanks to no longer needing Communion to function.
Essence Harvest, among other Charge related Feats would benefit significantly from us being able to rapidly generate Warp Charges without relying on BB or ally kills.
That toughness regeneration would be incredibly potent (6% per second regardless of damage taken) if managing Warp Charges manually wasnāt so painful.
Likewise, Kinetic Shield would be useful in a world where WCs arenāt erratic.
Overload could be insanely good at Elite sniping if there was some action we could take that generated Charges rapidly when in the presence of an Elite.
You wouldnt need to dedicate all your Curios to fixing Toughness if our Toughness Feats worked better with our actual gameplay lol, Though i will say congrats on getting lucky with good rolls there.
Sadly, I do not have such good Curios and I imagine a good chunk of other Psykers are the same.
Zealot tangent!
I use encourage because a high crit weapon naturally gains more from crit based feats.
However, every weapon can crit.
Contrasted with the Force Weapon designation in the Psykers feats, whereby the Feat is entirely nonfunctional if you wanted to use something other than a FS or Staff.
Zealot encourages where Psyker forces you through the wording. Iād have the same issue with Zealot as i do Pysker if that crit Feat specified Knives and Axes. But since every single melee weapon a Zealot could bring gains the benefit of the perk, Some more than others absolutely, though attack speed is probably the biggest factor, more than crit chance.
Perhaps the feat could be reworded slightly to be {X% chance on hit to gain 75% DR, Crits are 100%}.
I am an equal oppurtinist when it comes to fixing pain points in classes 
On the topic of Quicken and the Surge Staff ā¦ Imagine a world where you could take a Purgatus Staff and have Surge Staff level CC at the same time through your Feats,
Cos thats what Quicken has the potential to do. If only we could generate WCs faster and more reliably eh.
Vets, Zealots and Ogryns donāt rely on allies killing in Coherency to play their builds.
Psyker is once again the odd one out here.
An example being Ogryns Bleed feats. Ogryns get massive DR from being near Bleeding enemies, but also Bleeds them himself with Heavy attacks on demand.
Zealots get crit buffs from bleeding enemies and applies bleeds themself.
Put them together and the synergy between the 2 escalates both of them.
While you can definitely outplay the limitations imposed by Quelling without Mind in Motion, there is legitimately no way to outplay the limitation of requiring a BB kill without Communion to gain a Warp Charge.
Or SOulblaze damage to make a kill for Ascendent Blaze.
And the final one ā¦ You agree WCs are better when generated without using BB. You presently fix the issue by using Communion and Blaze.
So you must then agree that tying WCs exclusively to BB at the baseline is bad 
Surely youād then be in favor of improving the default experience of gaining Warp Charges?
Because thats all Iām advocating for. Fixing Warp Charges actually fixes a lot of issues with other Psyker feats too, all without directly buffing DPS.
EDIT: Right after i posted, a thought on the toughness issue you mentioned struck me.
That Kinetic Shield ā¦ instead of being 10 - 33% Ranged DR based on WC count, why not turn it into bonus max toughness per Warp Charge?
Because the regen perks are percentage based mostly, it further empowers those early toughness feats.
1 Like
Even if that was true, and Iām not saying it is at all, so what? Were it true Iād still have more fun palying psyker. In fact I did keep playing him though at the beginning I thought he was poorly balanced (which he might be in more than one way).
Now to the what-game-have-you-been-playing part: Iāve found myself time and time again literally saving my entire team, vets and zealots included, by torching a room chocked full of emies in t4 and t5 and then wiping the room clean with my ult and Ascendant Blaze (recharging at the same time all my warp charges). Oh, and that for literally no ammo at all. Like none. Which meant that everybody else could have much more ammo available. Not to mention the fact that soul-blaze stacks infinitely as opposed to normal burning damage.
Did I mention that Iām often the one kiling bosses? Both Plague Ogryns and the Jabba de Hut looking one. Yep, me, the squishy freak. Plus the two-three times per run (good ones, cause we all got bad ones and they suck all around) in which I clear the floor so quickly that the scripted compliments prompt from my team-mates.
I donāt want to make this into a pissing contest. Iāve been carried multiple times by other classes, Iāve been carried by other more skilled psykers and Iāve cleaned t4 with 3 psykers in a team (void, surge and purgatus). I donāt think psyker is the best class, and I donāt think itās perfectly balanced. I still think that if played correctly he is a total powerhouse and can make a run that much easier. Like all classes can.
At the end of the day itās a coop game, and a skil based one at that. If you suck at vet it donāt matter what the calss is capable of. Youāll still drag down your team.
2 Likes
Of course itās not impossible to do T4 or T5 in Psyker, nor is it impossible to carry with Psyker. As you say, itās a skill based game, and if youāre better than your team, odds are you will carry no matter which class youāre on. Fact of the matter is even youtubers which post so-called damnation carry guides will mention to no end how Psyker needs serious buffs or reworks, in their Psyker carry videos. Of course you can carry with Psyker, you just carry a helluva lot harder with Vet and Zeal. (I wonāt speak for Ogryn, itās the one class I donāt play.)
The talent tree is a hot mess, and everything to do with Brain Burst and Warp Charges is absolute peak idiot design. The charges barely even do anything.
I have never seen ascendant blaze be meaningfully useful. Even at six stacks it takes an eternity to kill even poxwalkers, so what happens is you set a bunch of crap on fire, and then the rest of the team and/or the Pysker himself finished them off with melee anyway. Itās crap. If you just fire it off and wait, the poxwalkers will simply walk in and melee you before they die from the laughable damage.
The staffs are overall in a terrible place. Trauma is laughable and does almost no damage, and does the worst possible CC (spread everything out). Not to mention peril cost and so on. Surge staff only really has value if the team overall struggles with skill or isnāt optimized. Itās a good carry staff for suboptimal teams, but when you play with teams that know what theyāre doing, it has very little value. Voidstrike does far too little damage for itās chargetime, not to mention that anything that isnāt a headshot is very likely to be 50% damage. (The huge ball that goes through enemies tend to hit an arm or a leg first, meaning it does limb damage even when fully passing through torsoes.) Itās also very poor at single target DPS, and incredibly bad with spread out targets. Purge is OK, but suffers from being worse than Flamer in all meaningful ways (damage and range). It also suffers from giving up ranged entirely, aside from the very lackluster BB.
And this is before even mentioning the hidden stats that make Psyker so bad, and the low health and low toughness for no reason at all (itās not a cannon, thereās no need to make it glass.) It also has the worst toughness regen talents in the entire game.
ā¦buff the staffs please.
Mind in the gutter. 
The main thing that would help staves is if their basic attack had higher DPS but generated peril more rapidly, because currently there is very little reason to ever use it over the secondary attack.
The staves could also use better blessings. Every staff should have at least one blessing that scales on charge level, for people who like that style of play of unleashing slow but powerful attacks.
I would also really like it if they added some melee staves that create a shield that can block ranged when they block, and instead of a push attack set things on fire or zap them at close range. Maybe as a special it could have a short range teleport, or a charge up similar to the force sword.
Really the biggest thing with the psyker is fixing the talents though. Itās annoying that all of the classes synergies run through Brain Burst, and instead of having a powerful tactical tool with limited uses you can bring out when itās go time you wind up with a spammable attack that just isnāt all that good.
1 Like
Letās say itā¦ my prefered subclass is preacher. I play largely as zealot and veteran.
However I have a psyker and took it in heresy, one time.
It was a nightmare for meā¦ half of the mission.
Once I have undertood my role, it was better. And I really think that psykers are not killers, but team support.
I used a surge staff and could paralyze lot of enemies while my teamates could kill them easily. I have also a force sword with deflector that is usefull to protect me.
But, I see the role of a psyker as a support. You can use your soul drain to kill special enemies (snipers by example), your staff as a support (surge is great at this, purge can kill hordes, void I think is more about damaging) and your melee can be used to defend yourself in close combat.
Quote pile?
Best pile,
High pile,
Tall pile. - Dr. Seuss, probably.
I think iām understanding you a lot better and what your main issues are regarding BB and WCs. The main reason i even started using Psychic Communion was due to how lackluster the other two feats are, not because i dislike BB. This is no means a psyker-only issue, i have this problem with all the classes where 1 feat simply offers too much to make picking the others a smart choice. I really wish FS would go through all the classes and revise/tweak feats that either donāt make sense or offer too little vs. another feat in the same column. However, on the occasion i donāt have WCs, and i need one, i will BB. This isnāt such an issue for me (outside of being mauled by 30 poxwalkers) since iām always BBing bulwarks, crushers, reapers, snipers, bombers, ragers, and maulers. On t4-5 thereās always going to be enemies that, as a decent psyker, you will know it is your role to BB them. The tedium may come into play when thereās ranged trash that needs to be taken care of and youāve been hit, toughness is gone, and BBing ranged trash isnāt the best time a psyker can have. A talented vet will take care of them with relative ease. Again, this is a toughness issue to my mind, we should have more. The labouriousness gets taken out of the equation when youāre killing high value target after high value target manually with BB and as a consequenceā¦ STACKING THOSE WCs BABYYYYYY.
If iām being honest, iāve forgotten what its like to play without Psychic Communion.
So i came up with this:
Meaning, any WCs i get, will have to be from BB. Iām planning on playing around with void, purge, and surge to get a good feel for it. I donāt think that youāre completely wrong in what youāre saying.
Can be a hassle, depends on the situation, the team helps, but i get your point.
Iām actually quite excited to test out my new build, iām completely open to the possibility of me being wrong. If i am, good, then weāll know for certain the psyker needs waay more sources of WCs besides BB and force weapons. You make a good point, opening up the psyker for more viable build on t4-5 is something i want too.
Itās already pretty strong with the build i was using, WCs coming in left, right, and centre. My concern is that this feat will get nerfed if we have too many sources of WCs, hopefully not.
Two out of the three are quite good, in my new build iām purposefully going for the harder of the three, Warp Absorption, since i plan on hovering at high peril. I strongly believe this to be a toughness-in-general thing and not a psyker issue, i can regain toughness back no problem with my older build, the regen helps a lot. What iām compensating for, isnāt the feats, its the low toughness pool.
My zealot link (not a tangent) was on point.
Zealot tangent!
I mean what can i say, refer back to my prior link (still not a tangent).
Good point.
Okay cool, if people donāt want to use my prior build to maximise WCs then iāll use my newer build to test things out. Iāll get back to you on this one, whether or not foregoing Psychic Communion maims the psyker through limitation of WC sources. If i can get my damn AMD card to record i might even have some joocy footage to share, of me either doing well or doing not so well.
Avast siblingsā¦ is thisā¦ the final boss?
Ohā¦ disappointing. More effective? yes. Faster? yes. Consistent? yes. More of the thing i want? yes. All the aforementioned does indeed make WC better generated not using BB. yes.
Ahh here is the final boss! Well thatās what i plan on testing out, i really do want to see things from your perspective a little better, iām not trying to be elitist or be a git gud bro since if this is a serious enough issue then i actually would want to be on your side.
We can go back and forth and cut grass using scissors on whether WCs actually need to be fixed, other sources that wouldnāt make the psyker op or something completely exploitable iād be in favour of for sure.
I really like this idea, you should make a thread so FS actually see it because it should at least be considered a good replacement if/when they rework feats. Better they get decent ideas from people who actually play the game. Doubt FS will read this whole thread.
Edit: Also, just want to mention for people reading, we have transitioned away from āPsyker is Weakā to āWC and BB is bustā. It would be interesting to see how many people genuinely feel like the psyker is weak. Not talking about preference, not talking about being squishy or even being the weakest class of the four, but actually not strong, wet noodle hitting soggy paper bag wet wipe weak.
Update:
Changed the build slightly, the previous build i made to use completely different feats, specifically to make the build as different, and difficult as possible yet still viable. My primary goal was to make BB the only source of WCs. It is possible to make a build that is flat out wonky, so i changed it to the above build. My prior build however, it was considerably more difficult to get max WCs, as would be expected. However, i was using purge staff, build was half-arsed thrown together, still cleared heresy without issue, was a bit janky though and didnāt like the feel.
The above build (current) is superior to the prior, i use:
Picked up as blue weeks ago, upgraded it for my new build today.
Voidstrike seems like a good fit, has very long range, good penetration, primary attack does good weak spot dmg, secondary shreds hordes, staggers elites and specials. Definitely my preferred staff when going full BB.
So then, what did i learn? Well, when BB is your only source of WCs, and your goal is or you at least want to have as many as possible without feats, very achievable, actually not that difficult if you have a BB build, which is the build i am using currently.
Iāve noticed iām using BB waaaay more than usual, more than my staff or sword. Seems like if you want to primarily use the staff, yet also want all the WCs to come to you, then you need to decide: Do you want a cake, or do you want to eat one? The first build, in my first post in this thread, can achieve this without issue nor error. The build i currently have, does indeed require you to make primary use of BB, if you want WCs that are at max at all reasonable times.
With the use of Psykinetics Aura and Kinetic Barrage even ranged trash isnāt too much of a pain, they are a large part of the difficulty in darktide, especially gunners. Yet, the more elites i kill (from anything) the quicker my ult refreshes, and also my team who are in coherency with me, they too get this reduction which is actually quite amazing, i canāt believe iāve slept on this feat for such a long time when it is actually very useful. If you have a vet using their ult, killing elites also triggers Psykinetics Aura too. Further reducing the cooldown of your ult, enabling you to continue the BB barrage. Charging BB 25% faster makes quite a bit of difference, it isnāt really a hassle at all, not that iāve found. Typically charging BB might make the pace of combat considerably slower if youāre primarily using BB. And yet, with the build i have now, the reduction in ult cooldown, faster BB charges, it is actually quite an enjoyable way to play psyker.
With all this said, getting, and maintaining 6 not 4, but 6 WCs isnāt too difficult. Good movement, heavy use of cover, selective targeting, knowing when to dodge pesky pox walkers and flak melee can make a BB build extremely effective. During the last assassination mission i did on heresy, i was the one outputting most dmg. Not at all times though, quelling needs to happen still, kiting needs to happen, and melee engagements are still a thing with this build. But i did notice i was carrying a lot more than i typically would using other builds iāve tried, elites were no problem, specials were no problem, nothing was more difficult, in fact, it became much easier and more enjoyable the more i focused on BB.
On melee engagements, 6 WCs from Warp Battery and Psykinetics Wrath feats, you can make a psyker into quite the impressive melee combatant. 6 WCs = 18% dmg, which is nothing to scoff at. Furthermore, the increased 15% dmg from Psykinetics Wrath which also applies to force sword light and heavy attacks, enables the BB psyker to be very good in melee, still squishy, but more of the cannon some people may be lacking in their glass builds. Since heavy use is made of BB, being at critical peril is almost always a thing, so the feat is pretty much always active alongside my WCs.
Even with maiming my build slightly using Warp Absorption, alongside my curios which have 20% and 15% toughness regen, toughness wasnāt a massive issue for me at all, rarely even thought about it. It was only really at 0 due to bombers or flamers, or getting caught out by multiple ranged trash, yet i recovered quickly. I could make this build even better regarding toughness if i picked Essence Harvest.
Psykinetics Wrath Feat
Iāll link this thread, which is quite interesting and looks into the effects of WCs + the feat on dmg output.
Obviously, gear is important, bad gear will mean a bad time. We canāt have it both ways, we have to understand what the psyker has to offer and work within its parameters.
If you want to make heavy and primary use of staves, then select feats which will grant you WCs passively, it is possible to do, and the feats are actually very good. So use this build:
if you want to perhaps use a gun instead of a staff, and still get WCs, then i suggest using a build like this:
Kinetic Barrage so you never use WCs (quick note: WCs are a currency, to be spent or saved, not to be had at all times) and so when you do use BB you can ult and do it very quickly without much peril cost at all. Essence Harvest will give you increased passive toughness regen the more your WCs passively come in through Psychic Communion. You could switch Psykinetics Wrath for Inner Tranquility if you really didnāt want to bother with peril management as you pewpew.
And if you want to be a BB boi, use this build:
Iām going to experiment with Wrack and Ruin, see if its a nice fit, seems like it if you prefer to use BB. Seems like the psyker has a bit of build variety after all, although i will mention, and should go without saying, donāt just pick random feats and select a loadout that isnāt complimentary. With darktide at least, specific playstyle require specific feats. learn them, find out whatās best, and then use them to your advantage.
Also, if iām being honest, i donāt think you should be getting warp charges for killing things with an axe or chainsword. Hopefully, in the not too distant future, FS will release force axes or something like that to add a bit of variety. But my position is still that if it has nothing to do with the warp, force weapons, BB, or feats, then you shouldnāt be getting WCs, thereās really no need for it.
WC on force sword special kill would be nice though.
1 Like
Played both Zealot and Psycher to the highest levels and difficulties. Experimenting with multiple skill and feat combinations and multiple staff combinations.
Psycher is definitely the weakest, and thatās with good gear. Its also gets weaker the higher the difficulty level. It reaches its limits in Heresy. I can be check mated on Psycher way more often than on Zealot.
Zealot for me to be Checkmated will usually take Gunners + Bulworks/Ragers/Maulers + Horde + Special. Usually 3 of those groups at once.
Psycher it only takes two of those groups. I can last with Surge, but that only lasts until overcharge max is reached. But switching between staff and BB to handle that kind of thing in my face usually means Iāll take a couple of hits. and Overcharge is reached WAY too quickly without the corresponding power to even take many down with me.
It is blatantly obvious when playing the two which one is weaker and needs some work. No you canāt out Purgatus a Flamer. Voidstrike you can come close to the Plasma gun but only by Spaming repeatedly, but the real problem with Psycher is you canāt really handle specials that well without Surge Staff. Brain Burst is simply not strong enough in the highest difficulties and and takes far too long to use, and needs multiple applications.
You have too much switching and fiddling to accomplish the same things that other classes do with less effort and at the same power level. It would be different if it were stronger when you do all that fiddling, but itās not. Its most often weaker despite all that.
You can when it runs out of ammo
1 Like
My $.02 is the Voidstrike, Surge and Purgatus staves are perfectly viable. Certainly not OP like the Power Sword or the Knife-Zealot build, but Iāve run all of them in damnation regularly without disappointment. Blessings can really make a difference on them, fwiw.
That doesnāt mean I donāt agree with āPsykers are weakā, btw, but other than Trauma staff (awful, insanely high peril, poor damage, knockBACK is annoying) I donāt have any real issues with the staves.
Psyker needs the perks and class features to be buffed, not the staves.
2 Likes
staffs weak buff staffs
Specific feats tied to the staves would be nice to make them more competitive to what the vet and zealot bring to the table, i think this is why people are saying the staves are pony. Psykinetics Wrath should be a stave buff feat imo. Making the typical BB charge time 25% faster by default should be a thing as well, i donāt think the majority of people who play psyker are happy with it, especially not with 100 base toughness, too vulnerable. Iāve learnt to deal with it, but iāve also learnt iām in the minority on this.
Not when the Psyker is down on the ground because he perilsploded.
Anyway, regarding staves Iād say the following would be welcome changes.
First of all, fix the damn blessings. So many blessings just straight up donāt work on the Psyker staves itās unreal.
Purgatus: Secondary charge needs to stagger more/sooner. Charging it up means youāre opening yourself up to enemies closing in, so the stagger is important. Closerange is all this stuff has going for it, so make it more dependable for that.
Voidstrike: Secondary charge needs a damage buff to put it on par with the Plasmagun. Right now the weapons are functionally very similar, but the Plasmagun does double the damage of a Voidstrike staff if both roll max damage.
Surge staff: This staff is fine as is. A lack of damage and range is offset by fantastic CC. The only thing I would suggest for this staff is to allow it to roll the Soulblaze stacks on crit blessing. That seems very on point for a staff that zaps people with electricity.
Trauma staff: Where to even begin? This staff has a clunky charge effect, is short range, does little damage, gets easily interrupted, knocks targets around like crazy, and builds insane amount of peril. This staff just doesnāt really have anything going for it. At the very least reduce the amount of peril it builds when charging by at least half, and remove the damage falloff near the edge of the area of effect so thereās a point in fully charging it.
1 Like
Totally agree, I am 400 hours in now and I never will touch my lvl 30 psyker again, SO WEAK!!!