Somewhat frequently I’ve noticed players in high level missions try to go on a suicide run through a massive horde to rescue a downed player. While the heroic effort is laudable, what I usually find ends up happening is said player eating a bunch of hits and going down themselves - now we’re down two players instead of one, when the team as a whole could have let the first player die and resurrected them later.
Don’t get me wrong, in most situations you can and should revive the downed player, especially if they’re only trappered. I’m not saying “ignore any and all teammates that need help”, because that sucks and makes you suck, but trying to run through six or so Maulers, Ragers, two Mutants and a pile of trash mobs to pick someone up is not worth it unless you have additional teammates giving you more firepower. One player on their own is not enough - not even a charging Ogryn.
You are right. It’s one of my biggest source for mistakes, I rush in and try to revive people who I really shouldn’t.
AFAIK this is a surprisingly realistic detail Fatshark got right with their tide games, accidentally or purposefully I don’t know.
Apparently it’s standard procedure by many military units such as the NAVY SEALs, not to rush to a hurt teammate, but to check surroundings and clear them first. Because opponents will just use the fallen comrade as bait.
This is the true auric maelstrom filter. You generally have at least 1 tourist more than half the time, who is nowhere near good enough, that keeps on dieing.
Veteran players will clear everything first and THEN rush the rez, maybe gete a teabag or two in.
The amount of times I’ve seen inexperienced players rush a rez with a pack of gunners or god forbid a flamer in the back only to die themselves is staggering.
Yes ofc.
If u do a bad pickup and go down your team are 2ppl down instead of 1.
Also take down specials like flamers bombers nets doggos and so on before.
If you have good teammates they should clear around the fallen when someone pick up the fallen person.
But in pubs it’s not that sure that the other teammates even notice the big red icon that someone fallen or u tagged something they are missing and so on.
Also don’t pick up in fire, just wait for it to burn out otherwise there is a big chanse the fallen just insta-dies
Okay, but what if I manage to save them despite the risk? hehehe
For reals, the best feeling is when you manage to save someone who was convinced they were done for. They usually hit the thanks button in those situations, makes me feel pretty chuffed lol
It totally DOES feel awesome but is also horribly impractical lol. The only thing that feels better is removing any kind of problem with a frag bomb - and that’s also hilarious.
If you reasonably think you CAN make the clutch, go for it! But most of the time, don’t.
One of the most common causes of failure, cascade failure in this case, a chain-reaction of events. For some reason this happens more in DT vs VT2, I guess the more varied player base; it’s a silly way to lose match.
And I shouldn’t need to need to say it, but if someone is always running off to die, looking at you Speedy McStealthKnife, make it a point to not put the missions in jeopardy to get them up as they will never learn if you do (if that’s possible).
Hel, there were some matches where some people just stopped getting revived entirely and the match got easier.
Is there any chance you could explain this further? From what I’ve take from the conversation is that:
This just shows that some teammates are such a drain on resources and/or time for a team, leading to it being harder too complete a mission, how do you balance around player skill? Mandatory psykhanium training? Or am I missing the point?
While this in some rare cases can be something that happens, in general the fact that even with middling players (I mean players that aren’t superstars, but someone contributing) it is far more advantageous to just concentrate on the problem at hand instead of going for a risky res is an indicator that the current game isn’t healthy for the team based game the creators envisioned where your survival isn’t just dependent on you, but the whole team’s contribution.
A team down 1 member should face some serious difficulty moving forward, but currently even down to 2 person the team can easily make it to the next res point without too much issue. Some build can even solo clutch to some ridiculous degree in the hands of some above average player.
You can somewhat cordon off higher difficulty behind challenges(win 10 I-II maelstrom until you can try I-II-VEG), but I think making the game “harder to carry” would solve the issue of having too many “difficulty tourists”, where said tourist couldn’t really win a match unless they properly contribute.
In a similar game with comparatively weaker player characters such as Left 4 Dead and Deep Rock Galactic, a player going down and/or dying can be a real thorn in the side.
Having a fourth contributes to so much team power that missing them causes a lot of problems that can easily pile up into a failure - getting mauled by a Tank because someone got Huntered in an unlucky situation or lacking the CC abilities of the Scout because he decided to fly off 50m away from the team and go down 25m above the floor (something I’ve done embarrassingly often) is a weakness, because by design in those games, not everyone can cover for themselves easily at all.
In Darktide, players are much more powerful and self-reliable. The reason stealth/knife Zealots run ahead of the team so often is because they can very frequently get away with it. Every class has a button they can press to instantly get control of a losing situation (Voice of Command, Telekine Shield (especially Dome when cornered), Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude, Frag Bomb, and every Ogryn active ability) and save any number of players from a wipe - if you aren’t playing recklessly, it’s very hard to die.
Ergo, having 3 players instead of 4 isn’t as much of a problem as it would be in other horde shooters. Solo players, especially the aforementioned Zealots, can reliably clutch a losing situation with 3 dead teammates into an easy win.
The problem I think @Nish is describing is that this causes the game to be more of four people happening to be next to each other while playing the same game instead of a proper four-player team game. The most team interaction you really get is knocking a disabler off some bozo halfway across the map that forgot to dodge or letting someone else pick up health/ammo.
I find its a lot easier to let pub players die because the threat lowers. The AI director chills off, stupid background modifiers like dog waves are disabled. Nobody blows a Poxburster up in your face. Stealth Zealot doesn’t disappear while the Crusher is attacking so it redirects. The game is easier without other people, sadly.
Would be fun, doubt Fatshark will implement it though.
If I understod correctly, this should be the point you where trying to make. On a whole there seem to be a call to make the game harder, to force people to interact with one another or at least at the speed which you could be progressing through a mission alone.
Unless Fatshark decide to add “counters” to some of player abilities, it would be a hard sell, atleast for me to just increase health on enemies and decrease damage output on players to achieve this… Personally, I’d like to see faster enemies with longer reach to combat speedy weapons. Lesser shield enemies to act as temporary speed bump, new specialists that could see through stealth, new enemy psykers with a disable ability and so on, other people have already mentioned this or something similar to it before.
imo this is the biggest denominer between a good and a great player.
The split second decision-making, required to determine if a rescue action is worth the risk, is something that is very hard to learn in matches with randoms.
because the average player you encounter is rarely a good lesson and one you shouldn’t mimick in this particular case, as you said they more often outright the opposite of the optimal play.
btw, it also happens enough that people who had a wide opening for an easy rescue, don’t capitalize on it, due to lack of awareness.
it goes both ways.
There are ways to train yourself to make these decisions, tho.
