When I see a dog… really anytime I don’t have time, I don’t power the sword. I just use it unpowered until I have a second. I don’t like it like that, and it takes a lot of hits to finish anything… really it ought to be as good as any other sword unpowered, and ought to power automatically, but this is what we got. Sometimes you just have to hit the poxer or dog with the stick until you can turn it on.
I just think dog example is also oddly specific. You might as well have the weapon charged already and dog just randomly dies to your powered up swing. Knife you might be middle of a horde trying desperately to make a room to even dodge the dog.
Like sure these scenarios can happen but i don’t think these are the reasons that make weapon suddenly bordering unusability.
Some level of proficiency should still be expected from the user. Be it proper spacing/headshotting with powersword or good use of the low stamina/mobility in knifes case.
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a question and a proposal
question
I need some help to understand the issue, because I don’t see it yet. I’ll branch out the different narratives:
Lore
The PS should be about the best human melee weapon in 40k. Would check out. It is expensive and not available to everyone. Eh - could work, being inquistion and specops. No apparent reason for a nerf…
Apex
Some weapon would always be the best or meta. Something being the best would not cut as a reason for a nerf, unless all choices should be equally strong. That also would contradict the lore.
Accessibility
While class restricted, every player can bring a power sword to any mission. Playing with friends you can also choose to not bring a PS at all.
T4,T5 matchup
It is only anecdotal evidence, but I did not see that many sharpshooters in T5 difficulty, i.e. vs preachers. It would be nice to see more statistics…
Coop
If someone brings a strong or OP choice to the table, the mission is more likely to succeed. Also less challenging. I did not notice it having impact on my fun (again, anecdotal), instead I found it reassuring to know someone brought a reliable tool to hokd irs own.
Challenge
If looking for a challenge for yourself, this can be easily done taking subobtimal builds. The choice of others has some, but limited effect.
Playstyle
Not all weapons and skills are equally easy to make work (see challenge). This does not seem required nor intended.
Is the problem the power level of a single weapon or rather the lack of power in other options?
Fun
I found playing with and without PS fun. As a non veteran I did not mind others bringing it. As veteran I had probably more fun than without. Should that be an issue?
Agency and confirmation
Does the PS take away from other player’s agency? Do players feel they could not satisfyingly contribute to the success with their actions? Do players not feel needed unless there is something that only they can do (CC, armor, dps,…)? Again anectdotal, I did not feel that when bringing strong/meta builds of other classes.
proposal
I feel the discussion would be aided by scope and ‘measurables’.
This first would need a common understanding of the role: What is it, that a veteran with a PS should be able or not able to do vs. a veteran without a PS? Same vs. other classes and equipment. Only then should one look at numbers.
i.e.:
PS should work well vs hordes, hordes mixed with elites/specials and heavy armor, but do worse single target damage than power hammers or chain axes and worse horde clearing than eviscerators.
(Is that the case? Should it be different? Does it align or contradict lore, fun, etc.?)
or:
PS in the hands of an average player should waltz through mixed hordes at T2, slowly pace forward on T3, barely hold at T4 and be pushed back at T5 (meaning with a wall in the back average joe will go down on T5 if unaided).
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it’s not tribalism, it’s a fact, whenever someone mentions Bleed Crit is OP, that person would get an endless barrage and shut down. I just pointing out the hypocrisy.
It’s not though? You’re probably the only person here I’ve seen display this. I’ve also never seen anyone argue against nerfing crit bleed lol, especially not actual Zealot players.
Watching your posts here feels like watching Don Quixote take swings at windmills while screaming they’re giants…
Still waiting on an actual defence for power sword BTW. Again I’m not gonna comment on how strong it is cause I barely play Vet. Still haven’t seen you actually make a case though.
Thanks for proving my point, and also My thread about Bleed Crit Build was locked to massive False Flagging.
Your thread got a bad reception because the entire tone was hurr hurr you asked for power sword nerfs now this is what you get as retribution. What reaction did you expect with that tone?
If you actually bothered to write up a proper thread detailing your issues with that build calmly I 100% guarantee that thread would have gone entirely differently.
Engage with people sensibly and in good faith and watch what a difference it actually makes.
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@alsozara Please don’t engage with this guy again.
He’s just bait trolling and going off-topic until a thread he doesn’t like gets locked.
Hes done it before and, for some reason, instead of him getting temp banned by Forum staff - other people’s topics get closed
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Last locked topic has been cause of salty guy who was flag abuse just cause we were desegree with.
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Yeah I meant to put in that last post I’m done contributing to derailing this thread at this point. I said my piece, they can take or leave the advice, I won’t waste my time further.
You cant go against facts it is already the sharp shoot being focused, and man, i didnt cross a lot of good shap S ingame, when i take an other class with my firends in T5 they regret my skills.
But, why we never speak about zealot flamer, invulnerability and insane self healing ?
I’m sorry but anyway Sledgehammer is right in what he point …
And yep we r f**ing Don Quixote !
Well, here is how I understand it:
Ogryn = melee support/disabler
Zealot = melee specialist (high melee damage and high melee sustain)
Psyker = range generalist (can be disabler, do horde clearing, long-range high-damage)
Vet = range specialist (high range damage and high range sustain)
So, when you have a Vet that outperforms melee classes in situations where mobility is not that important (close quarter combat) which is where runs are often made or broken in Damnation, this becomes an issue.
Yes ok we agree, now the game isnt designed like VT and you can be 4 sharpshooter in the same game, it’s an exemple cause i know what i say about SS. So you really need at least 1melee weapon to control hords.
Flamthrower please … it’s not melee, not infinit range, but my god
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If you have 4 SS most elites and specials are gonna be shot out of a horde. You gonna argue a DC sword can’t handle hordes fine? I don’t buy you need power sword to function in melee as Vet, which seems to be your implication here.
Edit: something I forgot to mention. Vet restores 50% more toughness on melee kill than other classes (something Zealot needs to spend a feat for), and has 10% base crit chance rather than the 5% other classes get. So it’s entirely inaccurate to say they have no melee bonuses @Ulfh
The odd thing is, you can still perform in melee with SS using the PS.
While I don’t disagree with you, The post that I received is insulting and ad hominem instead of having a debating tone.
Each classe in game is versatil, they got their limits but it s a game design, no, i dont use this talent at all.
Man, tell me where, but, really where, i said that ? I never talk about melee bonuses of SS
It’s not a talent it’s literally built into their kit. Every class gets 5% toughness on melee kill except Vet who gets 7.5% despite already having the biggest toughness bar to begin with.
I was sure I saw you defend power sword previously by saying it’s on a class with no melee bonuses. Maybe not exact words but at least strongly implied.
It’s not a talent… it’s base.
Other classes gain 5% per melee kill, Vet 7.5% toughness.