Let It happen I’d say, It’s about time they have a taste of their own medicine.
I don’t understand this insane cleave about the power sword. It’s not suppose to do that, it’s suppose to ignore armor - and not even as much as it used since 4th edition 40k. 5th edition introduced AP values to melee weapons just like ranged and later we went back into save detracting values to weapons, like they used to be in Rogue Trader. Power sword is suppose to be the balanced choice that does nothing great but has no weaknesses.
But if we’re going to keep insane cleave and it’s moveset, then let’s nerf it’s attack speed. If Ogryn gets to be as slow as he is with his attacks to get as much cleave, then the power sword should probably be in the same boat, difference being is that Ogryn will do that cleave and not kill anything, power sword most certainly kills. So yeah, my vote is to make it Ogryn slow.
The only ones turning this into a “Class vs Class” thing has been people that don’t want their tool nerfed.
In fact it’s mostly an assumption. If someone says “nerf PS” people who don’t want it nerfed assume they are a Zealot… only for the simple fact that they can then dismiss at “you are a salty zealot”, “what about the knife?”.
Most posters are discussing the various weapons though, so overall the discussion is good.
This “Class vs Class” thing is just unnecessary and doesn’t add anything to the discussion and it actively hurts the conversation.
Thank god it’s a small minority engaging in this behavior though from what I see.
Yeah, this whole class vs class thing is pretty ridiculous.
Especially the people who did not like that the power sword got nerfed, and is now on a crusade to get other classes weapons nerfed due to some childish spite.
Most people complaining about power sword are zealots though, for good reason. Their class is designed to gain buffs from hitting melee targets. The more they hit, the longer their buffs last. If someone comes along and murders everything in one or two swings before the zealot can get to them, the zealot is stuck with no defenses. The thing is pretty much every class can undercut each others main gimmicks, so the cycle of complaints will never end.
Where do you get this idea from?
I can’t say I hear a lot of “I’m a Zealot, nerf PS”. I see a lot of posts saying “Nerf PS, It’s odd it’s so strong on a ranged focused character”. They make comparisons to Zealots, but that doesn’t mean they are Zealot mains.
I honestly don’t know which group complains the most. Nor does it matter, focus on the actual discussion of the weapon. A Zealot, Ogryn, Psyker or Sharpshooter saying something is strong should be based on merits of the arguments, not the assumed class.
We can also turn this around “Only Sharpshooters wants it to NOT be nerfed”. Should that be the metric to dismiss their arguments on why we shouldn’t nerf it?
It’s a pointless distraction.
Why people want something nerfed is an important conversation, because in DT the problem is core gameplay design first and foremost. If that isn’t addressed we’re going to go in nerfing circles of one classes gear then another’s forever.
Yeah, I agree… I don’t agree “Oh, it’s because you’re this class”. Why something should be nerfed or buffed or remained the same should be based on the arguments made for said weapon whatever goal the poster wants.
The only reason to bring up someone’s class is simply due to the fact the poster wants to dismiss their arguments by simply saying “Oh you are this class so you’re voice is invalid”. Which is absurd.
I’m curious though what you mean by “Core gameplay design” needs to be looked out and how that would affect weapon balance. You mean changing Zealot mechanics might help them so PS wouldn’t be nerfed?
But that once again goes into the fallacy that the only reason why PS should be nerfed is because of Zealots. When I, as a Sharpshooter, think PS should be nerfed because it’s way too powerful for my Sharpshooter compared to any other melee weapon in my arsenal.
Remove any Zealot comparison and PS is still god tier powerful within the Sharpshooter class itself.
Can you stop with this weird appeal to tribalism? It’s perfectly possible for people to think something is overpowered without it being jealousy from playing a different class.
I am a Zealot main, I think the crit build should be nerfed. Similarly, plenty of people who complain about power sword play a lot of Vet (I’ve mostly refrained from commenting on power sword topics as I don’t play Vet much).
If you don’t think power sword is OP, maybe present some arguments rather than broadly accusing everyone who does think it’s OP of class bias. I’ve read so many of your comments now and I can’t remember a single one that actually presents arguments for why power sword is not over tuned.
I like the idea of powering up your power weapon, id like the same idea on the force sword for the psyker honestly, its too disadvantageous to fully utilize and it feels like its not how it was originally implemented more so that it was changed just before beta, it feels half baked smack at star wars and less like a psyker fighting for his and his comrads life to overcome impossible odds and survive the suicide mission. Just look at the staring cutscene at launch to watch 4 normal ig get messed by a boss that the players can handle for some idea of the insight.
All they need to do is make the other w40k melee weapons good. Right now the only one that is sort of OKAY, other then the PS, is the Evis.
The Cadian chainsword is a dang BOFFER. It does medium damage but has micro stagger and feels like you are swinging pvc. The Axe is better but the design of the thing is so goofy as to be off putting, and it’s not that much better. The Evis should be doing about double what it is even if it is in a decent place. All of them should just be ON all the time. This rev thing works but it’s not good.
The thunder hammer is a bad joke. The Powerclub of the zealot is a low power lore acc thunderhammer on hit but keeps tuning off, the ogryn power club slows you when you turn it on and is also only good for one hit. At a minimum they should get three hits, but really all of them should just be on.
The W40K melee weapons should be epic and only the PS is, and even it has to be micro managed which is annoying and doesn’t nerf it that much in the long run.
As to the normal weapons like the shovel? Give someone a major advantage if they take that, like double toughness regen or an extra curio or faster weapon swaps or whatever.
The ogryn power club if used with a heavy can hit multiple targets in one swing easily, its overpowered in perspective of the other players whod cry about a player playing the game.
The blessings that ignores mass provides a lot of improvement on every weapon that can get the blessing in my experience, can turn the chainsword from an ok weapon, into a pretty good one.
Never really liked the tactical axes until i tried one with brutal momentum.
I’ve seen some shocking image, and heard something that 80% damage power sword with 2 45 cost damage blessing with maximum stack and Flak armor perk 25% can give 1338 Flak head damage, which is almost one shot Scab Rager on Damnation, since this blessing stack can be stacked so easily. (Elites come with horde normally) With Blessing upgrade someday, it’ll reach the breakpoint.
Power sword damage potential is just insane compared to the other weapons.
I know Landing heavy attack to Attacking ragers head isn’t super easy, but PS is the almost easiest weapon to hit head, it’s very forgiving unlike hit head of Chaos warrior in VT2.
Since last updates i have, it seems, no more bug about random adcivation timer etc, it s a good point, but it s not the discussion.
It’s about my gameplay, my sharpshooter is total shield boost and have low HP so i dont block or keep contact with hords like a tard, so no i cant use 3 swings, i move a lot during a fight
I can tell you power hammer
Negative 12% dodge range at a max mobility roll.
It will take one and a half round on Damnation to realize that the low dodge range is cause for most of your deaths.
Having to charge the thing also means you could have dealt with the dog that plagues you with an axe or a knife by the time you charged and hit with the PSword.
The dodge argument can easily be circunvented with the fact that you really don’t need much dodging when everything in front of you dies to couple of swings. And if they don’t die they most likely will be staggered to some extend.
Also slide dodging in this game gives way more mobility than you would ever expect to have from a vermintide weapon.
I have to problem to play my zealot with 2h chainsword and power hammer, it deals a lot, cleav a lot, there s just a way to play it
You are invicible and can full reheal so … ?
I suppose people will eventually just get bored with using 1 singular melee weapon.
Sure it can be very satisfying to just delete a horde with a power sword, but for me at least, i get bored when spending to much time with only 1 weapon.
Used to only use daggers on all three human characters because i liked the mobility, used to use only bolter on my veteran and zealot because i could delete ogryn enemies without having to deal with ADS flinch, but eventually i just reached that stage where i just use whatever i feel will be fun, or maybe im just experimenting with a build in combination with a certain weapon.
Now, just to make things clear, I don’t think SS is a better melee class than Zealot because Zealot has better survivability and better modifiers and abilities to close the distance etc., but there is still the issue of melee in choke points and tight spaces which is where most of high-intensity melee combat in T5 is happening.
In these controlled situations, weapons vs skill dynamic tips in favor of better weapons since you don’t need that much skill to swing at a door. This is where Flamers (and Purgatus) become OP, but also where Powersword seems to (in melee) outperform anything an Ogryn or Zealot can equip.
This is also where dodging doesn’t really matter.
One would think that after being on the bench for most of the open-space multi-shooter groups situations, our melee classes would shine in CQC with hordes of enemies in melee, but nope, SS gets to be the melee hero here as well.
This wouldn’t be such an issue if Ogryn and Zealot had a lower, but at least comparable usefulness in the open, where SS (understandably) shines, but nah, you just get a suppression fest and no solution to regenerating your toughness because you are supposed to run into enemies which, depending on the map, you can do in only about 20-30% of situations on damnation without being stun-locked and shot to death.
I’d rather see substantial buffs to TH and Evi (dunno about Power Maul) then nerfs to PS, but the imbalance is there.