[POLLS] Discussion around balancing the game

Moebian 21st was on both boards: Special Event - Unrelenting Hordes- NOW LIVE

Mutated Horrors was on both boards: Hotfix #52 (1.5.10) - Patch Notes

The Waking Giants was on both boards: We’re Back - The Waking Giants - In-Game Event - LIVE!

I do seem to remember one of these being Auric only when it started though?

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In that case, I’m wrong, thanks.

I guess they DO somewhat consider normal Damnation when it comes to adding new content.

Although half of the new content recently being Havoc modifiers is not ideal.

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Walking giants was auric only at first until it was changed. The announcement post is edited, probably for that reason

flashlight

Yea, I think their general approach has proven to be that events are for everyone, as they should be. Kinda like how Havoc is also for a pretty wide range of players, starting at such a low level and offering 2/3 of the cosmetic rewards to players who’ll never move past Havoc 5.

I do hope they start back-porting some of these modifiers to the rest of the game. Heinous Rituals (once it’s cooked a bit more) especially. It’s got a cool feel.

I can see the reasoning for calling TH too strong because it trivializes certain maelstrom modifiers. I’d rather the weapon gets some better horde and mixed elite handling a la the VT2 hammer and doesn’t just delete bosses anymore because that’s kind of lame. Bosses are most fun when they’re actually on the screen for a bit longer. So while I wouldn’t say the weapon is too strong, I’d say it is too strong in that aspect

I think that’s just a format problem, depends on how the question is interpreted + can’t explain an answer.


this you?

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really?Commissar, are you serious? Carrying a melee weapon like the Demon Blade, which even a small soldier in iron armor can’t handle, will only make you ineffective in a chaotic battle. Meanwhile, your talent choice of armor-piercing shooting may perform well on reconnaissance lasers, but on infantry lasers, it not only wastes ammunition but also fails to effectively counter gunmen

ye, i know, i fixed that

oh wait, no i misread, no, thats the build
this build is all rounder, meaning it should shine to kill crushers aswell as bosses and everything else

if you make a build just for shooters, and you are a vet, you are useless

the melee option was just the default, don’t look at it

but the gun is real, even Grey, it does the job

The large problem is that every weapon has incredibly large ammo capacities to the point that it’s not really a factor in bringing a weapon outside of high level havoc, and I personally don’t think it’s that much of a deal as people make it out to be.

In the core game, currently, You can have a plasma gun that deletes deathballs of elites, onetapping reapers even in havoc with the right build, while never running out of ammo for it unless you genuinely try. Or you can take a shredder autopistol, which will always have slower kill times on everything and can even end up taking greater ammo costs because of it.

I think ammo for a lot of these high damage burst weapons should force the player and their teams to pace aggressively in order to maintain their ammo or end up losing their ranged option and a huge source of dps. Currently, the game fails at this horribly in auric damnation, and even in havoc.

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you know what guys, now i’ma playing my grey 60% Damage flashlight into auric malestorms with smoke grenades back to back and i’ll report how it goes

see ya tomorrow alegedly

Infantry lasguns are perfectly balanced, the only issue with them is that they can’t fire full auto. A weapon that needs 1 click per shot needs more damage and less firerate to feel good, spamclicking is not enjoyable. With the full auto mod the weapon category is EXCELLENT.

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I’d like an option to say none of the above.
I think armour rending is too strong, but the weapons themselves aren’t.

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Or they could increase the health values on all Elites and give Havoc modifiers to certain Elites. Crushers, Maulers and Ragers could get Final Toll making them more dangerous adversaries, Bulwarks, Shotgunners and Reapers would get Rampaging making them tankier.

It doesn’t really matter how much health you give enemies if you can still outrun them, shoot them with infinite ammo, spam regen nades, perma-stagger, etc. Levels are so massive that you need the current density in order to be competitive with the amount of mobility players have. There’s enough space in most open areas for all 4 players to perform their own individual kite routes and dps.

Aoe spam and ranged weapons need a pretty hard nerf at minimum for those kinds of changes to be effective.

I will always advocate that there should be enemies that you can’t deal with by sprinting. One size fits all defenses are boring. Turning around and sprinting away from melee engagements should be punished. You should be forced to chew what you bite off.

Basically this game has great melee mechanics, but is chock full with things that let you just circumvent these such as too much mobility, blessings that give you infintie dodges (who greenlit this?), weapons that oneshot crushers which are supposed to be the roadblock type enemy that you MUST engage in melee even if it’s scary, ranged weapons that can be magdumped all game long allowing you to never melee, extreme and easy rending values that make the problem worse, superhero special abilities like shout or smite that just let you disable all game mechanics with way too much uptime, etc.

It’s good design which then has bad design superimposed on it that lets you ignore the good design. Rending is a prime example of this. Armorpen exists as a balancing factor to make weapon and loadout choice interesting and keep crushers relevant. Then they add rending which goes to 100% easily which lets even small caliber lasguns destroy crushers? What is the point of having armor in the first place?
Another example of this is brutal momentum. Combat axes are supposed to be balanced by how they’re single target, high stagger heavy damage weps, with the caveeat that they don’t do well for multiple targets… so then they add a blessing that directly counteracts the weakness. So now the weapon type just plays the same as other weps. Then they add swords that can armorpen better than the combat axe while having excellent cleave. The whole design just powercreeped itself

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I’ve been off playing HD2 quite a bit recently. They have turned around from the March-May balancing fiasco and made the game a lot of fun to play again. There’s still some player-side nerfs that are a little frustrating, but the game remains challenging and fun to engage with.

HD2 doesn’t change HP nor armor values across difficulties. The only time this may happen is with enemy variants that are included during special events.

The things that change are frequency of patrols, volume of enemies (as well as a marked increase in heavy units) as you go up the ladder. Lower cooldown on enemy reinforcements increases the likelihood of engagements and increased number of objectives are required to clear the mission.

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in vt2 was hard to outrun enemies unless using some specific builds or doing push attacks tech to gain speed, but enemies were always still attached to the player regardless.

meanwhile in DT, it is possible to outrun easily everything just by sprinting even with a bolter, or simply also by constantly dodging, even with exhausted dodges, will still be able to outrun everything and leaving them to the dust.

i think they should either nerf mobility in general, among dodge distance, dodge speed, dodge counts too, especially for high mobility weapons or increase enemies speed movement accordingly when players are sprinting/rushing, reacting to a certain movement speed velocity.

crazy also how flamer has 2 dodges, but bolter has 4 dodges by the way
they should reduce the dodge count for bolter too, considering they are technically heavy both the same.

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attacks change…

They’re not nearly the same though.

Flamer cleaves through dozens of enemies at once without needing to aim, while also suppressing all shooters near you. Bolter is more useful as sniper or burst weapon against single targets.

Bolter needs those additional dodges, but maybe for balance sake they could make it 3.