A few words about game balance

[TriXter]

Good day everyone.
I would like to talk about weapon balance in Darktide (yes, again!).

Yes, the choice of weapons in the game is huge. But is there really anything to choose from?
When playing on 5+, many players have encountered the fact that one weapon is significantly better than another. Sure, you can take something for fun or variety, but there is little benefit from this: either it is a fail, or just more effort to win.

So I decided to make a number of suggestions for future patches.

So, let’s start with good old chain weapons.
Assault chainsword.
If anyone takes it, then only for their own aesthetic satisfaction. The truth is that it is hopelessly weak, inferior to ABSOLUTELY all other weapons.
Suggestion 1: increase its critical strike power (in the Finesse parameter). The exact figure is left to the discretion of the developers, but it should be at least x 1.8. Then it will be possible to use it in crit builds, and it will work.
Suggestion 2: add brutal momentum and perfect strike blessings to it. Also, as an option: haymaker. The latter will allow you to comfortably use it as a secondary weapon in builds focused on ranged combat.
Heavy Eviscerator.
It is worth saying here that about a year ago I already wrote on the forum with a request to change its moveset, or introduce a new one, and it seems that the developers read it, and right in the next patch they added almost what I asked for: Eviscerator Mark XV, it is much better than the first, but overall it is still weaker than the top weapon. If you add a little damage to it (about 15%), and increase the cleave by 2-3 more targets without armor, it could take its rightful place in the list of the best weapons in the game.
I have nothing to say about the chain axe, it is the best of the chain weapons, although I personally do not like it. It can be made better if the Brutal Momentum blessing appears on it. Blood for the God-Emperor!

Next: infantry lasgun. It’s weak, its time-to-kill is too high. It’s not good not only for auric or havoc, but also for dangers higher than 3. Therefore, it is almost never used by players, and this is also undeserved. The lasgun in its current form is not suitable for any purposes in the game.
Suggestion: increase its damage to targets without armor, maniacs, and corrupted by about 20%. For fragmentation - by 5-10. Leave the rest as is. After all, lasguns are not armor-piercing weapons.

Hellborean lasgun.
It is also very weak. I would even say: outrageously weak. Despite the fact that its blessings could make it an ideal weapon for shooter support builds. It just needs to increase its damage. At least 15%.

Combat shotguns.
This applies to all of them. With their slow reload speed and small magazine, they do too little damage.
It feels like whoever made/balanced them seriously thought that players would shoot at the horde with them. Otherwise, I can’t explain Zaron’s useless special attack. But at the same time, how such a tiny ammo supply fits into his worldview is completely incomprehensible to me. In general, combat shotguns are insignificantly weak.
They need to increase their damage, at close and medium ranges, especially against “unarmored” enemies: maniac, infected, unarmored. Flak too, but less. In addition to damage, they need to increase the stagger’s power against all targets, so that a shotgun shot at point-blank range would at least stagger, and better yet, knock over both human-sized enemies and ogryns.
By the way, if we introduce a new shotgun, there is an idea for its special attack: explosive ammunition. This is a lore thing, and at the same time very useful, and also just fun. It should work roughly like a bolter shot. It would also be a good idea to review the blessings. Most of the ones available on shotguns are useless, as they trigger after a kill, and shotguns don’t kill very well. Most of the existing blessings require you to empty a third of your magazine to activate. Something that improves reload speed or Brittleness would be best.

[psyk]

chainswords are REALLY not that bad my main issue with them how they have zero stagger on light revved/heavy revved attacks for the first ~4 ticks of damage. if you turn a corner with a revved sword and see a trapper you’re dead unless you push it.
for some reason having a chainsword saw through you doesnt stagger enemies.

[Molonious]

@TriXter

Hellborean lasgun.
It is also very weak. I would even say: outrageously weak. Despite the fact that its blessings could make it an ideal weapon for shooter support builds. It just needs to increase its damage. At least 15%

For me the issue isn’t necessarily damage. It’s draw time and optics. The time to equip this thing is insane, it gets players killed constantly, and there’s no good balance reason for it. Coupled with the fact that the only sights you can get are irons when there is clearly an optics rail on it, really hurts its utility as a precision weapon.

Additionally, between the long draw time, crappy sites, and charge-up time, it means you often miss priority targets that you wouldn’t have with most other weapons.

[dwOd_v4nd4hl]

I agree with what OP says however I’d try to make the weapons a bit more unique while buffing them:

Infantry Lasguns: Let them have higher pierce. Let them pierce through lets say 2 gunners or 4 trashmobs or whatever. Maybe with damage fall off idk and / or increase their ammo even more. They should be the “weak-ish” but super reliable (almost) infinite ammo ranged option without chosing perks/passives/auras. but dunno…

Hellbore Lasguns: Reduce the weapon sway animation. Introduce some more melee /bayonet combos, let players be able to block. TL:DR, I want it to be a viable “spear” melee weapon. Nothing super duper mega strong but viable enough to not have to switch to melee in every not so dense melee encounter.

Combat Shotguns: Increase their general ammo by 30%. Their special ammo should be limited to like 3 shots but be way more devastating. Make those special shots be worthwile.

I’m just brainstorming / imagining things that will likely never happen. Still that’s what I would love to see

kind regards

[TriXter]

Look here:

No, it’s still weak.
Maybe if you play Heresy at most, it’s not that bad.

I’d still like to choose between several weapons, rather than take a meta that has no alternative.

[TriXter]

The problem is that the time it takes to fire charged shots is too long to do much damage. A laspistol would do a much better job. This means the weapon is just in the trash, and that’s unfair.

[Ragnarok101]

Darktide’s balance is a cavalcade of poor decisions tbh.

At this point it would take a full-on reversion and nerf of everything to bring it back to ‘normal’ levels where high-level play doesn’t feature the sound engine crapping out.

Bring all enemies to a singular health pool across difficulties, have difficulty increases be about enemy numbers, and rebalance everything around Damnation runs rather than Malice and Heresy.

Because on Malice and Heresy? Infantry las does have a role as @dwOd_v4nd4hl describes. It’s an infinite-ammo gun that rewards aim. It’s in Damnation where it falls apart entirely because it simply can’t hit breakpoints or kill efficiently compared to, say, the plasma gun. And that’s because everything else has been buffed in an attempt to catch up to player power levels since the class overhaul.

Player power needs to be brought down, the enemies need to have the same done, and everything needs to be more careful and tactical than the current ‘run directly at gunners while sliding on your butt’ stuff we’ve got rn.

[Khorne_Dawg]

Combat Shotguns should get buffed as per this Topic of @Ryshek’s:

A list of combat shotgun improvements

Combat shotguns currently feel bad, especially for havoc. They were passable for auric, but as has been pointed out before, they feel clunky. I have a ton of real life experience with shotguns, and I feel part of why they feel clunky has to do with their implementation. I do not mean to make that sound like an insult to whoever designed them, because they did a lot of things right. So please take this as a meaningful critique I hope will come across as positive and informative feedback. I will d…

Infantry Lasguns should get buffed as per this Topic of mine:

Infantry Lasguns

@FatsharkStrawHat Hi, everyone! I am creating this Topic as a suggestion for how to improve the Infantry Lasguns in Darktide. The Infantry Lasgun is the standard issue rifle of the Astra Militarum and I think that it deserves better. Firstly, the Mk IX (MG XII) is blatantly inferior to both the Mk IIb (MG IV) and the Mk VII (MG Ia) in DPS. This is not in any way complemented by its low RPM which also negatively impacts its Crit rate. The Mk IX is in dire need of a DPS buff so that it can actua…

Power Maul should get buffed as per this Reply of mine:

What I would like to see from 2025

They did take a step in the right direction, though. In my opinion, Paul has two main issues: • Its Heavy Attacks don’t Cleave through Hordes like they should. • Its self-slow on Activation. 1-Handed Ogryn Weapons shouldn’t NEED to be slowed by Activation, it sort of defeats their purpose.

Rumbler should get buffed as per this Reply of mine:

What I would like to see from 2025

Rumbler Ammo buff when? I’m serious, though. With 80% Ammo and the +25% Ammo Passive, you only get 34 Ammo TOTAL on Rumbler. Rumbler should have, like, AT LEAST 33 Ammo at 80% Ammo WITHOUT the +25% Ammo Passive.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@dwOd_v4nd4hl

Combat Shotguns: Increase their general ammo by 30%.

I love this idea.

Lemme do that math for you! Just to show everyone what their 80% Ammo Stat would look like with +30% for exact referencing!

Accatran Mk IX Combat Shotgun:
13/85 (from 10/65)

Agrinpinaa Mk VII Combat Shotgun:
18/124 (from 14/95)

Zarona Mk VI Combat Shotgun:
16/104 (from 12/80)

@dwOd_v4nd4hl

Their special ammo should be limited to like 3 shots but be way more devastating. Make those special shots be worthwile.

I feel like maybe this wouldn’t be too good of a change on the Agrinpinaa Mk VII Combat Shotgun SPECIFICALLY.

Those Slugs are already able to break Bulwarks’ Blocks and substantially stagger Crushers while penetrating their Carapace, even completely flooring them sometimes when they’re hit in the head… they don’t really need any extra power if it comes at the cost of only having three of them.

[Ralendil]

Miss headhunter autoguns.
They are good, but worst than helbore.

I would give them different rate of fire between aiming and hip fire.
The mark vii, that has a single shot, should be single shot only when aiming.

Miss also autopistols. Here I don’t know how to make them, just simply interesting.

And shotguns / rippers.

Tactical axes seem also weak.

And finally graia / agri IAG are weaker than columnus.

[TriXter]

Idea with increasing the ammo is not bad, but do not forget more important things: time-to-kill target, and how many enemies you can shoot before the next reload. You are most likely shooting at the elite and specialists. You need to kill with ONE shot. Why exactly one, and not two or three? Well, for example, really useful weapons: a bolt gun and a bolt pistol. They need 2-3 shots, depending on who you are shooting at. But they can effectively hit a target at a long distance. A shotgun, given its long reload and small magazine, should have higher damage at close range than a bolter. But only at close range. This applies not only to shotguns, but also to the rest of the weapons mentioned here. In general, many weapons need to be brought into line with modern realities so that it makes sense to take them and not feel inferior.

[Predator]

I was dissapointed most in the double barreled shotgun, i expected i experience something like the doomguy from doom, i will rip and tear everything that get in my way, but cant kill a scab shotgunner with 2 ammo shot in like 6-8 meter range, that weapon only works in point blank or max 1-2 meter range.

[Enforest]

Need to use it with WS vet with Manstropper + Flechette. Otherwise it’s really bad, basically a second melee weapon

[Predator]

I used exactly that, but still useless, if my team is dead and i cant kill ranged enemies in close range thats really a secondary melee weapon

[Enforest]

Classic. I remember using on Zealot on the retrieve munitions missions, too bad my braindead veteran and psyker refused to shoot bombers and snipers on the final objective mission, which in the end resulted a wipe. Never again.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@TriXter

Idea with increasing the ammo is not bad, but do not forget more important things: time-to-kill target, and how many enemies you can shoot before the next reload.

I’d hardly call those things “more important” because every aspect of a Weapon’s important.

Combat Shotguns having less Ammo than a Bolt Weapon’s actually just shameful and shouldn’t be the case. I mean, you’re telling me that there’s a greater number of expensive Bolts for Human-sized Bolt Weapons around than there are CHEAP SHOTGUN SHELLS? You get what I’m going for here?

The same logic applies for the TTK argument, but not in any way that causes it to be of “greater importance” in my opinion.

@TriXter

how many enemies you can shoot before the next reload

This one’s also DIRECTLY affected by not only TTK but also by how much Ammo your Combat Shotgun has, due to the Combat Shotgun being able to hold more shells at a time with a larger Ammo supply… because Darktide logic, I guess.

[TriXter]

@Predator

I was dissapointed most in the double barreled shotgun, i expected i experience something like the doomguy from doom, i will rip and tear everything that get in my way, but cant kill a scab shotgunner with 2 ammo shot in like 6-8 meter range, that weapon only works in point blank or max 1-2 meter range.

No, his damage is actually fine.

I wish we had more ammunition.

@Khorne_Dawg

Combat Shotguns having less Ammo than a Bolt Weapon’s actually just shameful and shouldn’t be the case. I mean, you’re telling me that there’s a greater number of expensive Bolts for Human-sized Bolt Weapons around than there are CHEAP SHOTGUN SHELLS? You get what I’m going for here?

Here, game balance is already a priority over lore features, and we can’t change that with any requests. Such are the conventions of local game design.

[Khorne_Dawg]

Combat Shotguns don’t really deserve the same TTK as Bolters, but they definitely do deserve more Ammo. This is a ALSO a pro-balancing perspective, and can be used to leverage the player’s choice over which one appeals to them more.

I’m okay with Combat Shotguns not being able to delete Crushers like a Spearhead Bolter does, but also having less Ammo? That’s just plain silly and ruins the Combat Shotguns equally as much as the issues that you’ve pointed out.

The main reason that I’d use a Combat Shotgun over a Spearhead Bolter in Darktide’s how much more “versatile” that they’d be if they had more Ammo AND equipped faster than Spearhead Bolters, when (in the current reality) only the latter’s true.

[Predator]

Yeah fine within 1-2 meter, try it for yourself and you will se.

[MunKy]

@Ragnarok101

At this point it would take a full-on reversion and nerf of everything to bring it back to ‘normal’ levels where high-level play doesn’t feature the sound engine crapping out.

On the one hand, I agree, as it seems to me the sound engine has issues on heresy hi-int and up, when theres sometimes so much stuff going on that some sound cues get drowned out or dont appear at all!

On the other hand, I dont think it would need to be that extreme a solution. A simple buff of a few low performing faves would let people enjoy more of the weapons at higher levels, even with sound issues.

One issue with buffing or nerfing is FS seem heavy handed when they do it.