Shotties are very close to where they should be: almost balanced, tho not with the effort that goes into them. Just don’t compare them to OP stuff like plasma, revolver, or Vraks IA.
Problem with shotties is we’ve always had these same complaints, even back before their shadow nerfs when they were borderline OP… and yet no-one seemed to know about it nvm actually being interested in learning better either.
For about the first 1-1.5 years the shotgun meta was completely wrong. I had dozens of discussions here and on Steam back then trying to help ppl on how to use them, about all of which was ofc. ignored and met with childish insults instead.
(I’ll bookmark this this time so I can just point ppl here instead of typing out the same stuff every time)
How Shotguns work, and how to use them:
First, the basics
Shotguns are the most complicated of all ranged weapons. You need to understand how shotties & related game mechanics work, as well as how to use them and those mechanics in practice in order to build & use them well.
- Finesse
- All of the game’s finesse dmg buffs (crit & weakspot) from talents & blessings apply to the portion of finesse dmg over base only. So if your weapon does 100 base dmg, 130 crit, then +30% finesse/crit dmg would only add 30*0.3 = 9 dmg to crits.
- Note that all shotties have different finesse dmg for each of the firing modes
- Hip fire
- Fast, increased spread, reduced finesse dmg
- Hits more targets, but means fewer pellets will hit the same space so less dmg at range
- Ideal for stacking Scattershot, AoE, spreading DoTs
- ADS
- Ultra-tight spread, much higher finesse dmg (depends on weapon Mk)
- Ideal for focusing on specific targets & headshots, powerful cleave lines with Man-Stopper
- Specials
- Specials don’t get bonus dmg from hip / ADS
- For specifics see the “Shotgun variants” section below
- DoT general
- All DoT’s follow a logarithmic curve: Each stack doubles the total dmg at first, then tapers down the higher you go. So < 4-5 stacks does almost nothing, but ~6 / 8+ / 12+ is enough to kill hordes / specials / elites, respectively.
- DoT’s tick once every 0.75s up to their max duration (unless refreshed), then deprecate by 1 per tick. Bleed lasts for 3 ticks (2.25s), burn 7 (5.25s), soulblaze 10 (7.5s).
- tldr: DoTs are incredibly powerful and using them is all about stacking past breakpoints asap, or capping & refreshing on stronger enemies. Power/Strength affects all DoTs.
- Other
- Reload speed buffs also affect the special
- Zelly stealth has a grace period, attacking just as you tap the ult gives you 2-3 attacks per stealth (each with autocrit & +100% finesse dmg bonus)
- All shotties have poor sprint efficiency, switch to melee when moving distances
- Meta blessings are Scattershot, Man-Stopper, Flechette. Others can work too but they’re too specialized to go into here.
- All shotties thrive on crit / finesse builds, but Zarona and especially Agri depend on that
Shotgun variants
- Agripinaa
- Role: Long range, single target, armor, finesse builds only
- Lowest base dmg, longest range, tightest spread, extreme finesse bonus especially on ADS
- Point-like spread on ADS
- Special: Slug (hits a point)
- Extreme accuracy, range, stagger, base & finesse dmg, extra cleave
- Use case: Single target headshots, or cleaving lines with Man-Stopper
- Zarona/Lawbringer
- Role: Hybrid for all ranges
- Mid base & finesse dmg, long range
- Point-like spread on ADS
- Special: Spread shot (perfectly horizontal line)
- Extra-wide spread, finesse dmg, cleave, extreme stagger
- A full hit from special does less dmg than a regular shot, use it exclusively
for AoE & cleave
- Use case: Cleaving headshots, or stack & apply Scattershot / Man-Stopper / Flechette
- Accatran/Kantrael
- Role: Close to low-mid range, raw dmg, AoE, DoT
- Extreme base dmg, stagger, highest spread, lowest finesse dmg, low range (extra dmg drop-off, almost useless at mid+ range)
- Extreme stagger & suppression (even a single near-miss forces most specials+ to cower)
- Special: Burn spread shot (3-6 burn stacks, depending on pellets hit)
- Very low base dmg, extra cleave
- Extra spread on hip, very tight on ADS
- Use case: DoT (ADS for snipers, 2 to kill at max range), or stack & apply Scattershot / Man-Stopper / Flechette
- Note that any Accatran no matter the build can put 2-3 or so specials into hordes or special+ clusters and know they’ll be dead in 5s or so. Or keep the burn stacked on bosses. It’s a ridiculously economic dmg source for anything you can’t kill with as many regular shots, and the longer the distance the more targets that spread is going to affect.
How it works and what it means in practice
Because of the blessing meta, basic shotgun gameplay revolves around setting up with hip spread for Scatter (+60% crit) → using ADS crits for dmg. All while carefully compromising between headshot & cleave. By positioning well and aiming for good cleave lines, you can then keep Scatter stacked while pumping out ADS crits to cleave lines of specials+. With Accatran/Zarona specials are ideal for spread but bad for single targets. Meanwhile Agri’s spread is so small you need long range & very dense mobs, so usually the special is just better no matter what you’re trying to do, again making it much more simple.
Learning to manage reloads is also important. Reload speed affects specials making them ideal for special spammy builds, and many of the talents which trigger on % of max clip /reaching an empty mag etc. are ideal for shotties with their perfect control over that.
And ofc, all shotties have the capacity to dish out a massive amount of dmg if spammed, especially if you can spam while keeping the stacks up & hitting weakspots. But doing so is a massive cost to ammo, and a long pending reload every time.
So the main challenge of shotties is you have to consider a LOT of variables, plan ahead, and be tactical with every action you do. Every mistake, every pointless special loaded, every Scatter stack wasted, every extra magdump (or not when you should have), every DoT stack wasted on things that didn’t need it or would’ve died anyway… all of it just makes you perform worse. With shotguns every step, every shot, is built on the fundamentals of the shot that came before it.
But if you do it right?
- Marksman’s Focus vets can push the finesse dmg so high an Agri will do more dmg than plasma on the same build (save for crushers), except with more ammo & none of its downsides.
- High crit builds or stealth zellies with Man-Stopper & Flechette Accatran can wipe an entire hallway of everything but oggies with 2-3 shots from any distance for the most economic & massive dmg per shot any weapon can reach. Or conditionally stack double DoT’s on bosses. All without compromising its terrifying raw power in close range.
- Proper distance management with Scatter & Flechette and bonus talents can do this without Man-Stopper, conditionally
- A high finesse build with Lawbringer and Scatter + Man-Stopper/Flechette with cleaving headshots can shred massive mixed hordes up to mid range, while still proving a decent sniper too
- And more
tldr; Shotties are absolutely not weak. I use them more than any other weapon. The only class where I’m rather disappointed with them is on my main psykers, but that’s only bc between their warp mechanics, staves & Force Greatswords it’s tough to find a spot for the shotties.
The only serious problems shotties have is it takes a LOT of experience & skill to plan, build & use them well… while the game still has its OP weapons that need less than a fraction of the effort to still get close or even.
