Though, I have to admit, double barrel has great sound design. But it’s not much better in terms of practical application. You trade your ability to engage enemies at any range for the damage that’s about the same as other options, and worse than all of the meta picks.
The only use of shotguns for me is Agripinaa/Thunder Hammer loadout I sometimes use in auric. I use special shot to consistently open up Bulwarks’ shield for a follow-up oneshot on them with Thunder Hammer. It’s a cool interaction between those two weapons, but laspistol and bolt pistol are still superior choices for TH build.
Flame spam build, in my opinion, was always an overrated build that’s more fun than useful. Glorified horde clear tool, a worse Flamer. You waste all the ammo and skip blessings like No Respite/Full Bore that give you consistent oneshots on enemies in close quarters. And nowadays with more elites this playstyle is even weaker.
I fully agree with that.
Everything should be balanced around shotguns… and not the contrary.
That’s so sad that they buff everything instead of making everything balanced toward these weapons.
I’m borderline on the spectrum and quite fanatic about DT, calling it autistic is spot on.
Also I have no opinion on whether shotties should be that way or not, frankly from a design perspective I’d have to agree with you. Shotguns have always been the simplest most straight-forward choice in other games. But I’m a snowflake. One who loves discovering weird, unused stuff and abhors the popular meta. I love finding unique unpopular ways to still be extremely effective.
Shotguns are that, more than any other weapon. So I’m happy with that. And I do have to add that this isn’t some other game, this is DT. Mechanically DT is far more complex than probably any other action game I’ve ever played. I normally get bored & move on in weeks to a few months max. That I’m still here - despite all of DT’s flaws and oh there are many - says a lot about the game.
LMAO it’s that guy from the Steam forums parroting these terrible advices. Yeah, 15 MF stacks headshot with a slug is going to show those AFK mobs in the Meatgrinder!
Plasma’s and revolver’s cleave on normal shots are superior and lead to more damage overall when they hit multiple enemies, agripina’s special gets stuck on one enemy per shot and requires to load a special for each target. Also you need weakspots and crits to happen at the same time to notice this difference in damage output due to the additional finesse. And since shotguns have no access to Surgical, crits are not guaranteed, so lots of times you’re not getting that insane finesse damage.
High crit builds or stealth zellies with Man-Stopper & Flechette Accatran can wipe an entire hallway
If only enemies ever came from the same side and not spawned around the area in many maps. This requires near-perfect positioning at all times for this playstyle to be worth it. If multiple Bulwarks or Crushers block the horde with their bodies, the cleave won’t get to the enemies in the backline. If they’re spread out across the room it’s not ideal too.
stack massive DoT’s on bosses for the most economic & massive dmg per shot any weapon can reach
Laspistol with Dumdum and Infernus? Bolter with 8 Focus Them stacks? Hellbore MK4 with crit headshots?
Your post is good and has a lot of useful info, but I feel like you’re pushing the shotguns usefulness a bit too much.
Only with Veteran’s Weapon Specialist guaranteed ranged crit after switching + Manstopper and Flechette combo. It’s powerful, but nowhere as useful and consitent as Plasma or Bolter.
I think that they should do massive damages at close range and get a massive falloff. Something like the assault shotgun…
A weapon that needs mandatory blessings is not a well designed weapon.
And I say this and I use every days such a weapon. I use Achlys Combat axe that needs Brutal momentum and that you cannot play without (especially the achlys that has NO cleave).
Not my fault that FS can’t balance their game and leave me with objectively better choices, so I have to use one build on one character to make a weapon I like be somewhat competitive to meta choices.
All but a few weapons in the game fundamentally rely on certain blessings to not be F tier, and the ones that don’t are the blatantly overpowered ones, lmao.
Yes, double barrel kills stuff. You can run it, it’s decent. I’ve played many games with it.
But what is its niche? It doesn’t excel at anything. Nothing to write home about.
Quick to pull out special deleter? Some other weapons can do the same at any range.
can easily out perform a plasma gun if played correctly.
To me that’s a big if. Anything can outperform plasma if Plasma user is getting carried by the build.
Didn’t we have this discussion before? Good player knowing how to use an off-meta weapon at its max potential can probably do even better with a meta weapon.
I made a detailed and factual analysis with the intent to help people understand & appreciate shotguns. In comes you, contributing nothing but random insults. You’re a terrible person, also blocked so good bye.
Base Agri special has increased cleave, idr how much but iirc it’s similar to base revolver. Also it’s pretty biased to assume the worst use-case of the shotties and the best of the revolver & plasma like this. You don’t need weakspots all the time, just when it counts. The crits & weakspots do the same dmg, so a crit cleave even just on the body which kills a line & keeps Scatter stacked is worth much more than a single weakspot.
For the sake of an example, say you get the crit perk (+5%), passive talent (+5%), Opening Salvo (+10%), Deadshot (+25%, and Tunnel Vision for stamina), you’d get 55% crit base on ADS. 2-3 stacks of Scatter would now put you at 79/91% crit. If you add Reciprocity (+5% crit per dodge for 8s, max 25%) you could conditionally have +25% more.
But like I repeatedly said, there’s no point in comparing ANY weapon to OP stuff like plasma or revolver. They’re 100x easier and simpler and get close enough without building into them at all. Obviously they’re better weapons overall.
Yeah sporadic spawns are all over but unless you’re seriously positioning wrong, the largest concentration by far is almost always on 1-2 sides. Why do you think the plasma is as strong as it is?
Neither one of these cleaves or deals both burn & bleed at once nvm the other things shotties do. At this point it’s just obvious you’re picking isolated things out of context and misunderstanding on purpose. Come on, seriously.
What’s the point of reading into this like some “which is better, shotties or X” where you come in with laspistols and their base fire rate & crit & infernus to prove they can do something the shotties can’t so clearly they must be better at everything? Doesn’t work like that.
Edit:
To make this perfectly clear: I have never once argued that shotguns are better than every other weapon. No gun should ever be that. This is why so many are tired of the plasma, revolver, duelling sword etc meta, they need their nerfs and badly.
All I’m saying is shotties are definitely not weak, but strong if used right. Just not OP plasma strong (outside of special circumstances like that vet MF build, but at least it needs a serious sacrifice and total build dedication to get there and is seriously hard to play well, plasma needs nothing including skill).
At least I don’t spread misinfo and gaslight people about some imaginary “skill” required to use shotguns. Your builds are objectively bad and have nothing to do with practicality. Telling people to put MF on Agri shotgun genuinely feels like trolling, especially when it can already oneshot any non-Ogryn elite/special (except for Mauler and Mutant) with a headshot without much investement.
Refer to earlier comments in this thread, saying something with a smart look doesn’t mean it is relevant in the reality.
For the sake of an example, say you get the crit perk (+5%), passive talent (+5%), Opening Salvo (+10%), Deadshot (+25%, and Tunnel Vision for stamina), you’d get 55% crit base on ADS. 2-3 stacks of Scatter would now put you at 79/91% crit. If you add Reciprocity (+5% crit per dodge for 8s, max 25%) you could conditionally have +25% more.
Maybe. I believe it can work. But it still sounds like too much of a setup and a perfect case of every talent lining up to see the insane damage you’re talking about.
Not to mention the constant ‘weaving’ of special and normal ADS shots that you need to perform (if I understood correctly the way you play shotguns).
Yeah sporadic spawns are all over but unless you’re seriously positioning wrong, the largest concentration by far is almost always on 1-2 sides.
All I’m saying is that this tactic of spamming special flame shots gets weak as soon as you enter mid and final events where enemies spawn all around you, and you can longer focus the entirety of the horde coming just from one side.
So basically you just wait for that juicy thick horde coming from the same doorway/hallway to get the value from this playstyle. It’s either that, or wasting both blessings in the build (cleave/ bleed) when you could get stuff that works at all times.
Also don’t Ragers, Maulers and other enemies need multiple specials to die, even when they come from the same direction and you get extra cleave? I think “wiping the hallway” is not the best way to describe it. “Clearing the lesser enemies moderately fast” maybe.
Neither one of these cleaves or deals both burn & bleed at once nvm the other things shotties do. At this point it’s just obvious you’re picking isolated things out of context and misunderstanding on purpose. Come on, seriously.
I was referring to boss damage that you mentioned.
No malice here. I just think overstimations like this prevent us from getting any meaningful buffs to stuff. I’m sure you perform well with the weapon.
I just don’t think bleed stacks (IF they proc on every shot) increase DPS to the point where it outshines the weapon builds that I mentioned.
Yeah, lost me here. This is a gross exaggeration so I’m not gonna read the rest, and experience has taught me not to read novella spreadsheet posts. Speaking of spectrum, at best they are at the very bottom of the mid spectrum.
K.
I think you need to draw a clear line of pre #13 and post #13 overall game state. All of this is the same as your “keep PS deactivation on getting hit (by trash)” opinion, it doesn’t seem grounded in the actual game’s , not grinder, reality.
And I do have to add that this isn’t some other game, this is DT. Mechanically DT is far more complex than probably any other action game I’ve ever played. I normally get bored & move on in weeks to a few months max. That I’m still here - despite all of DT’s flaws and oh there are many - says a lot about the game.