It’s cool that shorties can be really good under specific conditions, but outside of those conditions they don’t feel good to play with.
They need a buff at the low end. Without min/maxing they should be decent weapons that feel good to use.
It’s a shotgun, a new player should be able to grab one and have fun with it. Not wait until they’re level 30 and spent a bunch of resources to make the perfect build.
I love the mk9 shotgun (i only play auric damnations). But i agree it isnt great idk why i like it its just really easy to use. It being a spreadshot makes the hit registration feel good and with no respite blessing its pretty much guaranteed to 2 shot most specialists and the cleave feels nice so you can hit trappers etc through hordes no issue. Its also nice at killing ragers and knocking them back. Fire shot is bad at everything but bulwarks you just hit them with 4x fire shots and they will burnout and it ignores their shield. I know it isnt the best and should probably be buffed but i literally main this weapon and have good success and i find it very fun to use. I guess im just weird
Oh it’s definitely way too much setup, but most of it is on the build itself being such a big sacrifice with no room for anything else. The gameplay is relatively simple tho, just keep MF stacked and try to hit at least a few mobs at a time.
The weaving isn’t really an issue for Agri on account of its super low spread. Like idk 95%+ of Agri gameplay is just using specials whenever you have the time, ADS when not or its enough, and you only do hip shots when you have to recover stamina. What’s important is just getting those cleave lines and keeping the finesse stuff going, since its base dmg is so incredibly bad.
As a main psyker & Voidstriker I get fantastic cleave lines everywhere all the time, final events are no exception. Wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, the main mass is always coming from some direction or dragging behind you wherever you’re going.
But there’s a really easy way for anyone to test & see this in practice:
Yes it’s a bit impractical as-is, but once you see the dmg I’m sure you’ll get it. How you can build and play around that.
Take that build with a knife or a Duelling Sword with the BoF blitz, and you now have something for every range and situation. And it’s not as if it makes the shotty completely useless outside of stealth either, just a lot less reliable. With Blazing Piety your base crit is still 35%. That’s enough for magdumping to several crits, if the situation requires. Ofc it’s not going to hold out to a Scatter & Man-Stopper version, but it can be a decent compromise.
There are many boss killers far better than shotties, I mean they’re not exactly good at it. I just meant that with DoT’s being one of the best & most economic ways to deal boss dmg, this gives shotties a decent & ammo economic role there too.
It’s similar to any bleed builds really, like that Puncture bolter. Easy way to do passive dmg while you can focus on melee or whatever else.
Yee I mean… I don’t disagree. I love them, but that’s just me being me. I can definitely see where you’re coming from and you have every right to feel that way.
It’s just IF they do buff them and especially by a lot like many would like, they need to seriously nerf the stuff I’m talking about here. Otherwise they’ll just be broken OP.
The guns might need a complete rework, I’m not arguing that.
I think we’re on the same page.
How would you buff the low end without making the high end OP?
Omg! I went back and re-read my post and now I get where this misunderstanding came from. 
I owe you an apology.
This part:
I meant to say the cleave DoT vs mixed hordes is the most economic & massive dmg per shot. And then separately that those DoTs can also be quite good for bosses. But depending on things like stealth (or other sources) with a CD to force the crits, nvm their slow reload & low ammo obviously means they won’t stand up against Infernus laspistols or Puncture bolt pistols.
I really do apologize for that, and again for getting so worked up over what was obviously my own mistake. 
Went and fixed that for what I hope sends the right message this time.
Honestly no idea. As the many responses here and community reactions before make clear, the current complexity is too much. I suppose the easiest way would be to significantly buff their base dmg & cleave but seriously nerf the finesse dmg & Scattershot stacks to compensate.
Tbh that would be welcome for the blessing meta anyway, outside of novelty builds they really are far too focused on the 3 crit blessings. And I’m right there with most of you about how shotguns being fantastically complex and also specifically finesse weapons of all things just doesn’t really make much common sense. 
Watched Black Doves? That’s what a shotgun should do to enemies up to and including 12 metres. 
Combat shotguns, in games at least, aren’t finesse weapons imo. I’m not expecting to hs a sniper at 60m, but up close I’m expecting to turn enemies inside out. Nothing new saying that I don’t suppose.
On the subject ~ the old Agrii was my favourite weapon for a while. I think at the point the game went elite crazy (the “xbox” patch), its balance went out the window.
Rapid reload with 7+1 or 8+1 capacity is preferable to ludicris capacity and long reload times.
Just my hot take. It’s the only way to balance the combat shotguns versus magazine fed weapons that fill up to full in one quick animation.
That is all well and good, but for me, everything about this is wrong.
Shotguns have never been considered finesse weapons.
It has always been THE CQC “blast them to kingdom come” weapon.
I am not saying you are incorrect in your evaluation, but the outcome feel off to me.
A shotgun is a simple weapon: you pull the trigger point blank and blast your enemy into small fragments of blood.
I’m talking about DK3d, Quake, Max Payne 1 & 2, and Punisher: The Game’s, shotgun gameplay experiences: the sound of the shotgun’s roar and destruction is all you need.
Complexity is something I enjoy with weapons like the Long-Las (when Fatshark?), but it isn’t appropriate for regular baseline shotguns.
We need to remove the drum from the blood scab‘s short gun for our own use
I like how Shotguns work in Helldivers 2.
I feel that what we have as shotgun does not feel something I expect from a shotgun.
I agree. Shotguns in Darktide feel like a civilian semi-auto rifle, instead of what a shotgun should be.
Here is some very complex meta analysis math for you, since apparently you just really love that.
Agripinaa Braced Auto Gun
DPS: 2,266
Blessings: Easy access to large damage bonuses by just shooting and being close to enemies
Upsides: Very good ammo efficiency, good reload blessing makes reloading very fast if played right, extremely high stagger and suppression, good cleave make it able to mow down most mixed hoards. Practically a sniper rifle when combined with good dance of death use, otherwise wide spread makes suppression and hoard clear easier.
Downside: Poor accuracy unless combined with dance of death on zealot, slow reload without blessing use.
Recon Las MK 12
DPS: 1,460 (+ ~900)
Blessings: Extremely easy access to high crit chance and Infernus stacks that go up to +900dps
Upsides: Very fast reload resulting in essentially consistent dps, very good ammo total plus borderline overpowered synergy with shock trooper, infernus stacks stack very fast and kill even reapers from a fraction of a second of shooting them making the effective dps with optimal play insanely high, essentially doubled effect of all crits (1 crit = 2 crit shots) making infernus and shock trooper even better
Downside: Doesn’t cleave
Agripinaa Combat Shotgun
DPS: 1,058
Blessings: Conditional buffs that require very good ammo management and consistent play to benefit from.
Upsides: In very small cases considering optimized blessing and talent use it can deal damage almost as good as a plasma gun.
Downside: Poor ammo economy, very slow special shots, very bad reload management, bad accuracy, zero cleave.
The combat shotgun isnt complex, its just a worse braced auto gun.
Your saying that “um ackshually its not that bad because you see, in a very optimized case, considering perfect play, it can deal damage comparable to holding down M1 with BAG. So really its actually pretty good almost OP id say”
Shooting heads in a shooter game = complex mechanic. Not everyone can understand!
Yeah, we’re just a bunch of mortals, and we can’t shoot in head all the time like Astarte.But many of the veteran’s weapons and talents are highly tied to headshots.
I am being ironic about those terrible advices and explanations provided earlier
Dumbing DT down to (single target) DPS-only…? I’m honestly at a loss for words.
Ah well, I’m happy for you and your confidence!
Yes just ignore me bringing up cleave and stagger and suppression and ammo economy. My point is only about single target dps clearly.
Please if combat shotguns are this borderline OP, install this mod, run whatever combat shotgun build you like, run og hoard or mobian hoard or any elite selection you want, and then just see how easy it will be to beat any of those times with a BAG or plasma or bolter. Hell even the double barrel.
Go ahead and prove me wrong. If you can demonstrate how good it is in a actual test compared to competent weapons then that is WAY more impactful then yapping on about how in this exact scenario it does this much DPS for one shot and in that one shot its comparable to a BAG.
You know what? No.
I’m not going to jump through hoops and spend even more hours to “prove” something I’ve spent years painstakingly, time consumingly finding out & making notes about and JUST posted about in this thread, to yet another random rude person.
I came here to share information, to help those interested in learning about the shotties. I’m not the least bit interested in whatever “I must win” internet warrior fights you people keep cooking up for whatever reason.
Everything I posted about is true and tested, unless some minutiae was changed in the latest patches I didn’t yet notice. If something about it was wrong, correct it - without being an ass about it. I would happily learn better! If not, then use it or don’t that’s up to you.
I don’t care who wins or loses or who’s better or any of this random forum debate stuff some of you so seem to get off on. All I care about is understanding the reality of how the game works, and how we might make use of it.