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Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Currently, many weapons in game are very fun to use. I enjoy the Flamer, the Eviscerator, the Bolter, and the Thunder Hammer. I’m not saying these weapons are perfect and perhaps changes could be made to make them even more fun, but that as the developers move into the future of this “live service game,” they should aim to keep these power fantasy weapons satisfying.

Some weapons in this universe are meant to be stronger then other weapons. There’s a reason that guard sergeants can be UPGRADED with a Bolter - because a Bolter is better then a Lasgun!

If there’s ever a point where the Bolter can no longer kill just about anything (besides bosses, etc.) in one to two good bursts, “it’s over” for Darktide.

If the Eviscerator loses its ability to cleave multiple foes in two in a single swipe, “it’s over” for Darktide.

If the Power Sword no longer feels like a >Power< Sword, why bother?

My concern is that as the developers notice players gravitating towards the power fantasy weapons once they’re available, they may worry the earlier weapons are not viable, and since the shop throws more of those at you then the most interesting ones, perhaps they hope for these weapons to be on parity with the later unlocks.

I am concerned that to achieve this, the most interesting weapons will be nerfed into the ground, when the earlier weapons should just be empowered or brought more and more into their specific niche.

The axes, knives, swords, pistols, lasguns and autoguns should, instead of pulling the power fantasy weapons down, be given more reasons to be continuously used.

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Fair. I think you are right to worry about the future of the bolter at least in the short term but it wont necessarily be neutered.

Feel is different to dps is different to viability.

Things like reload speed, handling, ammo capacity, fire rate etc can all be used to nerf weapons without directly nerfing the damage of the weapon. I’m not sure exactly what to do about the bolter but I think they’ll figure out something good in the long run.

I find the power sword the least satisfying of the power weapons despite it probably being the strongest, and I find the thunder hammer extremely satisfying despite being on the weak side. Similarly it should be possible to nerf the bolter to a ‘balanced’ state without making it feel bad.

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The Bolter already has an excessively long weapon swap time that has kept me using the Flamer more then it, I really don’t know what else they could do; that’s part of what worries me. The weapon as we have received it is already nerfed out the box, how much further will they go?

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Yep, you shouldn’t have to rack the slide every time you pull it out. Especially when it’s empty.

I also use the flamer on Zealot and Plasma Gun on Veteran but if I was aiming for the strongest build I think I would go bolter every time. I think it’s important to have some variety and creativity involved in build crafting at high difficulties to keep the game interesting. The lower difficulties are always there for you if you want a power fantasy.

As far as balancing goes

  • reducing ammo capacity is a real option. I think it would leave the bolter in a very viable state as a semi auto weapon and players will have to learn to resist mag dumping at every opportunity.

-they could slow down the automatic fire rate

-they could reduce hip fire accuracy(I feel like the hipfire is easier to aim than the iron sights)

I know you like the damage but there’s more than one way to nerf damage

-ap/raw damage ratio. They could keep the damage and make less of it AP so that it doesn’t obliterate armor or reduce the damage but increase the AP ratio so that it still obliterates armor but doesn’t delete bosses. I’m not sure what’s more lore appropriate. Maybe depends on the bolter variant.

-increase knockback, reduce damage so that it still feels impactful without obliterating everything.

I don’t think any of these changes would destroy the weapon but that is subjective.

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There is no need to adjust Bolter. It behaves like Bolter and On Diff 5 it already has issues with ammo with the amount of elites and specials you need to kill with it. It’s also dam slow in swap and it has big stability issues after each shot. If not for overheat problem I would take actually Plasma on Diff 5 vs Bolter.

Seriously, I feel like if things will go as some people will say I will just stop playing few weeks after release and consider early-beta as game where I was allowed to have fun with stuff I love in 40k before people will cry to make everything trash-tier…

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I agree with this, it’s all about the power fantasy. Eg the Bolter and Power sword are in basically a perfect spot, balance wise and satisfying-to-use wise.

Any balancing to be done should be done by buffing weapons that underperform, or reworking the feel of weapons which seem balanced but are underused, to be more satisfying.

Prime example for me is the Lucius lasgun. I don’t think it’s even that bad. It’s quite bad, and it also feels horrible to use. It doesn’t really excel at anything and I will always, 100% use another weapon over it.

Some of the autoguns could stand to have bigger magazines too in my book, I feel like I’m mag dumping somewhat weak SMGs into packs of 50 people and endlessly reloading.

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The problem is, there’s absolutely no point to use any other weapon other then the bolter if you have access to it. It does everything that all the other ranged options have. It has armor piercing, stagger, AoE, and range.

The downsides of the long ready time and the long reload can be worked around for the massive benefits that weapon has.

I agree though, the bolter feels like a bolter, like I would expect a normal person using a bolter would feel. Big, awkward, and extremely powerful. The downside is that no other weapon that can compete with it (at least on the zealot).

Same with the power sword, but the power sword is even worse because of how it makes having a zealot worse then filling that slot up with a vet.

I don’t want that power fantasy to be lost though. The bolter is an iconic loadout for preachers in 40K, along with the chainsword, the shotgun, and the evecriator. Denying even one of those to the zealot preacher would be extremely disappointing, along with denying the chainsword and power sword to the vet.

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If you mash reload as you pull out the gun it can skip the cocking animation.

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Here is the thing as many said: other weapons need to be buffed. Lasgun is for example in perfect spot too and I actually take it on Diff 4-5 many times as if you have very good aim and you spam consecutive headshots it deals with everything perfectly bar bulwars and carapace armor. Especially with burn on crit and Deadshot it can still melt Crushers. It has great ammo efficiency (especially Mark IV that only eats 2 rounds per shot instead of 3) . It’s best weapon to have to deal with specials and range trash mobs without worrying about ammo. You need someone else to deal with armor though.

So here is another issue: there are currently only TWO range weapons that deal with carapace and flak armor on Diff 4-5 that are also strong vs monstrosities. Bolter and Plasma. But Plasma needs to be buffed/fixed because it’s sucks now.

So how I see what range weapons should be:

  1. Bolter. As it is now. Ammo is scarce, it’s basically your BMG 50 cal of 40k. It’s deals with everything but ammo efficiency is really low and you have to make every shot count. It’s slow, clunky and has stability issues. Sucks under suppression fire (it really does).
  2. Lasguns. The precise headshot spam rifle with great ammo efficiency. Imo it’s great as it is now.
  3. Plasma. Slow anti-elite/special super gun, but it has (should have) way better ammo efficiency than Bolter. Charging make it akward to use but it swaps faster and, is hit scan without any stability issues or recoil. It’s current problem is that overheats way too fast. Otherwise it would be in great place.
  4. Autoguns: should be your run-n-gun fantasy. Fantastic hip-fire, little anti-armor between lasguns and bolter/plasma on headshots. Biiiiig ammo pool. Run and gun for ultimate DAKKA DAKKA experience.
  5. Heavy Laspistol and Revolver. Headshot poppers. They should have higher headshot modifer and revolver should have bigger ammo poll considering how slow the reload it. They both should be “hand cannons”.
  6. Autopistol. Biggest trash penetration, huge ammo poll. Only good at clearing hordes and unarmored enemies but it should just shred hordes.
  7. Lucius. Something between lasgun and heavy pistols. Big headshots modifer too but to compensate for charge mechanic: better body shot damage so it’s more forgiving on miss but full charge deals a lot of headshot damage (like Long Bow)
  8. Shotgun is perfect as it is. Great balance between high DPS, high single target damage and very good range. Weak vs armor but that’s expected.
  9. Flamer is perfect. Anti horde CC gun, great ammo efficiency, good range for what it should excel at.

Of coure we still need to see release weapons as well as there will probably be also multi-melta which should be worse range than shotgun but more damage than shotgun with less ammo efficiency so you only pull it on biggest threats. Should straight up one-shot curshers, maulers and bulwarks becasue its meant to melt tanks.

There will also be I think scoped long range lasgun which I am looking forward the most. I hope for headshot armor penetration here.

Anyway I think every weapon should have it’s niche but I don’t believe every weapon should be optimal on diff 5. Diff 5 is when you need to min-max optimal loadouts. But as someone said, game should not be balanced around Diff 5. Imo around Diff 3 is the best for majority of playerbase.

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I would love to agree with you, but with the distain and ‘git gud’ that always springs up when people talk about having skills comfortably at diff 3, it’s not going to happen. Too much of the discussion around these games is about whatever the maximum difficulty is.

TBH it should be possible to have a zealot with a chainsword and a shotgun pull their own weight in Diff 5, but there’s absolutely no point in doing so when there’s the bolter who can do everything that the shotgun does and more. That’s where I think we’re going to disagree on. We should have options at the highest difficulty, it’s what VT2 has. You can use nearly every weapon on cata as long as the team has every important role covered.

If we scale everything up to be relative to the bolter on diff 5, then the rest of the game is going to be too easy.

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I disagree again especially if you compare to Vermintide 2. Who would run Cata with elf crossbow, swiftbow, blunderbass, flamerstorm staff, drake pistols, axe, hammer & shield, 1h mace, 1h sword, two-handed sword etc. over the “meta” options if they want to win? But it’s still possible to do Cata with them, hell, people even solo Cata with them. When it comes to max difficulty, if you want to play for win you will always take best options. But you can do runs with other weapons but you know you are making it harder.

I know I can run Handmaiden with Elf Axe and Swift Bow and I can still win Cata. But it would be much easier to win it with Sword n Dagger and Longbow/Javelin, yes?

I myself runn Diff 4-5 in Darktide with Shotgun, with Lasguns with burn trait, with Licius or with Revolver. However I know I should take Bolter or Plasma at worst at Diff 5 if I want to play for win. But if I play with my friends that we ate teeth on Cata with I can play with other stuff.

So I disagree again. You won’t avoid on max Diff “best in slot”. There will never be that good of balance in anygame.

Wait till people will figure out best Traits+Talents min-max combos + breakpoints and you will again see people runnins same stuff on Damnation like on Cata in V2 no matter where bolter will be.

if you want to talk max difficulty - meta is inevetable, no matter what will be on top, something always will be.

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Fatshark absolutely nailed the power fantasy. Bolter is what it should be, flamer wrecks, chain weapons feel amazing, thunder hammer sounds incredible (but could use a little love).

I’m not sure why people are saying the bolter is overpowered. I actually think it’s one of the most well balanced weapons in the game. What actually has to happen is for everything else to be brought up to the same level of effectiveness.

The bolter is incredibly powerful but has big downsides. It has a slow swap time, slow reload and sways all over the place.

Another well designed weapon are the kantrael lasguns. These are the DMR’s of Darktide. Ammo efficient, accurate, great at headshots. Medium swap time. Their downsides are reduced effectiveness against armor and terrible hip fire.

However not every weapon has it right at the moment. The headhunter autoguns for example don’t do enough damage or have enough ammo for their intended purpose. This makes them feel massively outclassed by stuff like the bolter which does what it’s good at really well.

Another weapon that needs some love is the krieg lasgun. It’s supposed to be a brilliant precision weapon. However currently it feels awful to use because it has massive sway, it’s slow to swap to, it requires really good positioning to use (a team mate blocking a charged shot feels terrible), it’s ammo inefficient, it has a slow fire rate. There is no reason to use it over the bolter because it doesn’t do anything better. If it was much more stable and slightly more ammo efficient it would probably be in a pretty good place as a niche special sniper.

The power sword is definitely an outlier in the melee department. But all they need to do is include some kind of capacitor drain or ammo requirement. This would keep it really powerful, but you’d have to think about when to use it.

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The Power Sword

It found out that the power sword is a fantastic beginner-friendly weapon. It has good cleave and can do pretty much everything. That of course comes at a cost of having to flick the switch every 2-3 attacks or else it hits like a butter knife. Good/Competitive players stray from this weapon because it is unoptimal. If you get caught with your pants down you will get stun locked to death and there will be nothing that can save you unless you finally manage to turn the damn thing on again.

The Thunder Hammer

The tankbuster, the sun on a stick, the thunder hammer. Yes its damage on the single target is nutty but the slow attacks and low armour penetration values actually put you at a big disadvantage if you don’t have a fantastic AoE backup weapon such as a flamer or a bolter. The wide sweeps with good stagger are great but not good enough when there isn’t anyone else to support you before all the elites start bunching up on top of you because you lack the ability to clear the enemies quickly. A good player never chooses this weapon and that’s not without a reason.

The Bolter

This BFG comes at a cost. The low ammo reserve, long reload times, high recoil and slow weapon ready-up animation are the things that you have to keep in mind at all times. All it takes is a one mistake for you to end up in a situation where you no longer have the ammunition to reload or any time to reload when surrounded by enemies coming from all sides. At that point you know it’s all melee or nothing.

Variety

I played a lot of Veteran so what I can say from experience is that the easiest way to increase build variety and loadout diversity is buffing the autoguns that are overshadowed in almost every aspect by lasguns and also the plasmagun that is outgunned and outmatched by the bolter on every front. Instead of nerfing what already works great and is fun to use try matching other weapons to the ones people use (except for some weapons that really deserve some tweaks).

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Increased stow speed on bolter.
Bolter shots now have an arming distance of 6-8 meters.

Still feels like a Bolter, but not as overpowered :^)

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I just came here to add to the OP and agree.
The weapons so far seem fine, some are even a bit on the weak-ish side.

Vermintide 1 and Vermintide 2 entered over their duration the classic MMO patching style of “nerf it” and I’d ideally really like this game to be more consistent compared to it.
What would be great if the alternative route was chosen, where instead of nerfing a set of items people perceive to be on the stronger side, the weaker options were instead buffed a little.

What works extremely well with games that have the weapon variety of Darktide is to have every weapon allow it’s own niche and clearly this is already the intended design. If Bolter is particularly stronger in damage output compared to other guns and people start mentioning it, please don’t nerf it. Instead have the other competing items provide other utility the bolter doesn’t have.

Examples are vast ammo reserves, fast weapon swap and weapon reload times, higher accuracy or extras such as never being taking out of Ironsights mode even when suffering health damage.
There is many variables to play with. Please don’t go the dreaded way of nerfs. It’s a pitfall trap that eventually sees all the fun playstyle options of a game obliterated.

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