I once went on a date with somebody from EA corporate, and we went into a discussion about loot boxes and it led into bringing up vt2 and their rendition of lootboxes, and she looked at me in disgust like “oh you’re one of those”, and went on to say that it’s just all business and it doesn’t matter what a bunch of people on forums whine about. So, if FS corporate is anything like EA corporate, then yah, you’re right on the money.
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They should make them illegal. Its gambling for kids… like how is anyone ok with this. ALso if there is any attachment of real money to the interactions of said gambling its real gambling with real money for kids.
So its already illegal but you know… games industry be special like that.
Oh, it’s not gambling for kids; it’s just gambling. I think europe has taken a stand on it, but it still exists regardless. It’s definitely training kids to think it’s a normal way of how to engage with entertainment, kinda like how cigarette companies targeted children. It’s not good.
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Its so overtly egregious that as someone who once aspired to work in the industry and now has kids and reads those leaked docs occasionaly just… just gross. Like why am I surprised, why am I even a little bit shocked at how much money Diablo Immortal makes.
Its totally illegal in my country but there is no precedent for holdig companies accountable and after all these years of arguing that games are captial A Art the fact that they arent considered art by the existing government is why they are allowed to provide gambling to my children.
oh wow I have less than 100 hours in Darktide. Got everyonr to 30 and… just don’t see any reason to play anymore. None of my friends will play they arent at those levels anyway and its not like I have a single class with a weapon loadout I like.
As if the customer should be thanking them for finding such innovative new ways to take our money. God, business school is a plague on society.
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As if cusotmers are anything except metrics to validate executive wages.
Well that’s not my experience. When the flamer was OP you had one almost every round in your team. At the moment I see all kinds of loadouts in my public lobbies, so I doubt everyone already has the most broken builds as then you would encounter them all the time.
Again that’s not the experience that I make. Of my last three runs two felt really good challenge wise with only one being to easy. It did improve quite a bit since the flamer Nerf. Seriously before the Nerf just one guy having that weapon did change the difficulty of the run quite a bit.
Difficulty and progression go hand in hand. If acquiring to strong gear is made possible to easely the difficulty is going to suffer. I find that hard to argue about.
I think if the crafting is getting changed now we will very quickly end up with with very few op builds and you gonna encounter those almost every run. Increasing the difficulty doesn’t change that problem.
It’s hard to say how many op builds there are right now, as you are right we can’t really test it at the moment. But I would prefer a balancing beta before we just change the crafting system.
Perfect gear is only marginally better than good gear in V2. In Darktide that’s completely different.
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What you’re describing isn’t my experience either. Where do you wanna go from there?
You seriously believe that the nerf to the flamer did a damn thing? That’s honestly besids the point but it does show very nicely that you know less than you let on.
You base your view of balance on what random people bring in public lobbies… As if that was some absolute metric to base such an opinion on. I just saw a random Vet bring a knife and revolver to HI-STG but does that now mean that both of those weapons / that loadout is OP? F*ck no! He was horrible and died to standing in fire for 15 sec but does this now mean that both those weapons are bad because some random, braindead teammate did poorly with them? Obviously not.
The point is that basing your argument on something that has nothing to do with the power of a weapon is just not how you do it. Your argumentation is flawed in quite a few ways good sir.
Well, were they “just right” in terms of difficulty because the game was so well balanced or because your teammates / you were carried by someone doing all the work? Rhetorical questions aside, in my experience, the only thing that can make DT even the slighest bit challenging is either: me bringing a “for fun/bad” loadout while having my teammates pick up my slack OR having 3 teammates that are not up for the task and I have to do the work that 4 people would otherwise.
This as a theoretical argument might seem like it’s hard to argue against. The thing is, it’s purely theoretical and not at all accurate to the situation that removing locks would create for DT.
- There would still be too much RNG for one to simply acquire perfect gear right away.
- THE GAME IS ALREADY TOO EASY so it wouldn’t matter how fast you get your “too good gear” when the difficulty to gearpower disparity is already so damn high.
- DT has no progression to speak of so I really cannot understand why you’d be afraid of gearpower affecting something that simply does not exist.
Ok so with this I need you to be specific. Which builds are currently OP but do take a long time to get? Specifically which builds? To me, someone that plays/played with and on a wide range of difficulties, items and teammates, I cannot say that there are currently any such OP builds. There is a rather clear hierarchy of which weapon is better than the one below it but none of it OP.
Even all that aside, it doesn’t matter how long it takes someone to get an actually OP loadout, if it’s OP it would need to be nerfed no matter how long it took to get! How long/short of a time it took to get something is no justification for an item to be OP/bad!
And before anyone clever thinks to cross-refference this with my “Gacha game, gacha rules” statements, ofc this applies here still.
All this to then ultimately say: Why the f*ck would you want to balance first, then change crafting when you say yourself that testing right now is hard to evaluate because of how restrictive crafting is? This approach is ass backwards.
One more thing to add since we seem to be talking about theoreticals anyways: How would increasing the difficulty NOT solve the “problem” of “too many OP loadouts?” Clearly if the game was harder and the items didn’t get any stronger, what was previously OP would now just be “adequate” right? This argument makes it look like that you don’t actually care for the balance but that you don’t want it too be too easy to get good stuff. If that’s the case, go play eve online and not the tide games, that’s not what they are about.
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Is there a summary of the proposals, other than lock removal? I’m one of the 13-ish who voted that way
- if I like the feel of a weapon and it performs okay, that’s where most of my fun from DT comes from - getting 10 rubbish oranges along the way doesn’t bother me too much because that’s secondary. If I get something okay, I’ll give it a whirl. Achieving the perfect item isn’t really a goal for me - if I get an upgrade, cool; if not, it doesn’t really bother me. I mean, I’ve dumped resources into the lowest rating items I could get my hands on to test theories because the weapons I had (of varying degrees of quality) were already fun
- the locks have encouraged some creativity (albeit forced), which I’ve enjoyed; not every experiment was successful, but there’s been plenty of things I’ve tried and enjoyed because that’s what I had to work with
- if blessings were more balanced (since the range right now goes from flaming turd to solid gold), I don’t think crafting would be as big of a deal. It doesn’t account for every criticism of the system, but if the game didn’t give you 2 flaming turds on your weapon, would you dislike crafting as much as you currently do?
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Counter question:
If the game had more balanced blessings wouldn’t it be even more interesting to try freely different blessing/perk combinations and how they interact with each other and feats instead of being forced to scavange/gamble for acceptable base weapons which then will be locked in a certain way for good or worse.
If I have finally a weapon with a stat distribution I like I would really like to be able to try different belssing combos on this…
Even or maybe especially when all blessings are valid.
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Sure. To be clear, my take on the crafting system is more “IDGAF, it’s fine” rather than “Don’t change it, it’s fine” - just thought I’d give some perspective from the 3% 
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Most center around it. Things off the top of my head…
- Using a weapon over time gives XP to it, allowing you to remove it.
-Spend resources to break locks
-Red weapons have a low drop chance and never get locks
-Keep the locks but greatly increase loot drop, raise base modifier values to like 370-380 from brunts and shops.
-Keep the locks but only lock perks/blessings you change vs the opposite slot.
-Just remove locks, they should never be in the game, just raise all resource costs on high tier items to swap blessings and roll perks.
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Welcome to our haven.
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Of those options, red weapons is probably the one I’d be least keen on - if the acquisition of red weapons is like Vermintide, it solves the problem of locks for the people skilled enough to do the highest difficulty levels. If you’re not at that level (for whatever reason), nothing has really changed.
Usage and just outright spending resources are probably my preferred (in that order), because
- Usage gives you an opportunity to get some degree of familiarity (if you don’t already have it) with the weapon. Whether that be through a number of games or XP, and higher difficulties providing higher contribution, it seems like the more interesting progression loop between (1) your goal not being “Farm materials” and (2) you need to use the things you want to upgrade/optimize
- Since the material reshuffle, Diamantine is overflowing with no use for it. Unless FS have something else in mind, it’s just… sitting there.
Just to clarify my understanding… the outcome here would be that the first blessing/perk you modify is permanently locked, and the other blessing/perk is permanently unlocked?
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We don’t have to go anywhere from here. We are discussing some very subjective points. There is no wrong or right about this.
Yes I do believe it did. I would say many others think so too as you can see in discussion here on the forum and by it being used a lot less now.
Besides that it doesn’t matter.
I say in a well balanced game you gonna encounter many different builds and loudouts. In a badly balanced game it’s the opposite.
It’s always fun when a discussion suddenly turnes into “You’re bad, you’re opinion doesn’t count”.
It’s impossible in a forum to prove how good you are.
It also doesn’t matter in this discussion.
The two rounds were just right because in both there were two occasions where we almost got wiped. They were challenging. I think I kinda carried though 
. But of course why believe me?
Arguments about my skill don’t address my points.
My points are:
- Changing crafting system would make it easier to acquire perfect builds.
- Some of these perfect builds would be very strong and OP.
- Balancing them to a normal level would take quite a long time.
- During that time the game would be in a worse state balance wise.
So arguments about my points would be for example:
- There wouldn’t be a lot of OP builds and they could be balanced in a reasonable amount of time, despite there likely being more players who complain because more players are using the build already.
- OP builds are part of the game (I would disagree)
Adding another difficulty would change the game being to easy but it would still be poorly balanced.
Why I think the game should be well balanced is in this thread
I do not care for gear progression at all. For example even if every player would start with perfect gear I wouldn’t care if it is well balanced
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That’s very ignorant and has, again, nothing to do with how powerful an item actually is. This doesn’t account for a ton of factors that play a role in decision making over which build to bring to a mission. You simply assume that most/all players will just bring what’s OP. This is akin to seeing 99 studies that disprove your believes and one that proves them and you chose to only look at the one.
That’s not the point I’m making at all. Not even close.
The point is very simply that no matter how easy the game is, if your teammates are not up for the task, it’s just gonna become challenging. The game itsself is no harder than it was before but the relative challege increased. Now claiming that the game was challenging when:
kinda proves my point very nicely.
There’s also the matter that there are more people claiming that the game is too easy where as you’re the first person I hear say that the game is “just the right kind of challenge”. The level of skill of the player does, in fact, matter when discussing challenge. Challenge is relative to the skill of any individual player. Which is precicely why, more people claiming the game is too easy for them than not, is an important metric that dictates the view of the challenge the game provides. It’s all logical, I don’t know what else to say.
Congrats, you’ve spotted the goal behind the suggestions that FS has been receiving for 7 months straight! What you are worried about (for no logial reason I might add) is precicely what every single player that still plays the game and all the ones that stopped have been asking for! I’m sure your opinions will garner a ton of sympathy since it’s opposing what everyone else wants -.-
I ask, again, which SPECIFIC builds? You have yet to provide any. Just claiming that they would exist with no actual substance to talk about is simply a waste of everyones time, yours included.
How long it would actually take is impossible to say, outside of saying that they could do it in a single day. What matters is that they finally get good data with which to make balance decicions! For as long as crafting stays the same they cannot get this necessairy data, simple as.
That is simply no downside when compared to the game going another 6 months with the crafting staying the same. The 2 simply do not compare in downsides. This is such a laughable point is honestly not worth discussing. You’re basing this of off which OP builds again? I’d have a ton more to say here but with no actual builds to discuss it’s just a waste of time.
So if you do not care about progression, how does you opinion on this subject have any weight? It’s very clear that you’re asking for what’s best for you, the individual you. Nobody else will ever agree with this since it’s for you.
The other half of this is also that what you just said here goes against what you say you’re afraid of:
How do these two statements align:
and
How? I don’t see it. In one second you say that “Changing crafting leads to too easely accessable OP builds” and then in the next you say: “I don’t care about how imbalanced these builds are”
So which is it? You quite literally can’t have it both ways.
Edit: This last point can be ignored. I read over it again and realized what you meant to say. Punctuation matters damnit -.-
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What builds are these, if this is the crux of your argument? Literally everything being used at the minute is carried by 1 blessing on the subject of OP this OP that. When you are spamming M1 with a Slaughterer Bull Butcherer with Flak Damage you are killing trash so fast confident strike is a bonus. Pinning Fire auto pistol is where literally 90% of the damage comes from, considering most enemies die before blaze away procs twice. Trauma Staff with warp flurry solos the game, having shockwave is just a bonus for your teammates or if you don’t want to sleep through the game maining trauma. Can Opener is the only thing you need on a Ripper. Slaughterer on literally everything else.
Where is this game breaking build, we need to gate behind impossible odds? Mainly its just bricking things that people already agree to not be very good. Like a thunderhammer with T3 thrust, still anemic and literally falling just short of doing anything worth using a thunderhammer for. Or optimized curios. Would the dreaded optimized Ogryn loadout with 132 Toughness 471 HP be too much for the game? lol.
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This “perfect build” argument is so weird.
It only exists here from people against improving DT because nothing in the world has a system as bad as DT.
Justify my locks when FS stops handicapping gear to at max 80% of the available weapon.
Justify my locks when at max level my gear acquisition is better than an average of sub-50% - 60% in all base stats with quadruple tier 2 bonuses.
“Perfect build” my ass. The weapons were designed first and then just given min values after the fact
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locks discourage people from obsessing over tweeking their weapons endlessly instead of making more weapons to do different things, encouraging experimenting with different guns instead of just builds of a single gun.
some people just obsess regardless and get mad about it not being encouraged.
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