Pls change grimore corruption logic

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

It’s no more unfair than vet getting to bypass the “no ammo” modifier by generating ammo and grenades off elite kills. It’s fine to have different classes be more or less affected by some challenges. Ogryn players enjoy a way larger hitbox, worse dodges and acceleration so they can have fun extra struggle on the 500 snipers missions (and against trappers in general).
And just like how you can mitigate this by bringing guns on ogryn that are good at killing trappers or snipers, you can mitigate the amount of harm you receive from a grimoire with specific perks on your trinkets.
Meanwhile Vets and Zealots can trivialize certain objectives with stealth, whereas Ogryns can carry capsules faster and Psyker is the only class with ranged weapons that don’t need ammo at all. Obviously all the classes are different, what’s the issue?

I really think this whole thing is just a whinge. Yes, some classes are affected by it less. Why do they have to be affected the same? It’s an arbitrary thing to demand since it applies to nothing else in the game. Even just a basic ranged shooter enemy affects every class in the game very differently in practice.

I think in general the way people complain about grimoires is crazy coming from VT2, where people picked em up for fun and there was no toughness in that game so you just had your health cut by like 66% even with the trinket

4 Likes
22

Terrible analogy.

Everyone gets an identical sandwich.

A more fitting analogy would be:
Independent of their individual wealth, everyone has to pay an identical fee for carrying grimoires.

If you are not satisfied with the amount of money you have left over after paying, you can either get more money (hp/wounds) or try to get a discount on the price (corruption resistance).
Alternatively, you can choose to not participate (no grimoires), so you do not have to pay a fee at all.

Op is asking to change grim corruption because of how impactful it is, when you deliberately ignore everything that reduces the impact that it has.
That is about as reasonable as a request to rework and rebalance a weapon, because of its poor performance, when using it without perks, blessings and talents.

2 Likes
23

Funny you should use money as an example because socioeconomic status is about as unfair a system as it’s possible to get in the real world…

Let me clarify my analogy. The sandwich and its differing cheese status isn’t the grimoire corruption. It’s the impact of grimoire corruption. The lower health classes are disproportionately impacted by grimoire corruption if it’s a set amount and not a percentage. Taking the same number off of a veteran’s health bar and an ogryn’s health bar have different amounts of actual in-practice alteration to their general survivability. That’s what I meant with the second half of that post. And I think that’s not great design seeing as it’s possible to have grimoire corruption foisted on you against your will by a teammate. You can ask them to get rid of it, but they don’t have to. You can avoid grimoire jobs, but that limits you to not ever using quickplay. You can carry grim resistance, but it’s a waste if there aren’t any grims, which again limits you to not using quickplay since you won’t know if there are grims or not. You can try to vote kick them but I’ve literally only ever seen a votekick succeed one time and it was when one guy was AFK for like four minutes while the rest of us were waiting in an airlock, and even then it took two vote attempts. These are all imperfect solutions to an unfairness in the system.

And incidentally, I’m not so much saying that veterans and psykers have it too hard, I’m saying zealots and ogryn are getting off too easy.

1 Like
24

Another way to put it is that grimoires are a regressive tax like sales tax.

25

They literally aren’t. The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing in this thread is truly something else.

They literally have different base HP, access to different amounts of HP nodes, and are literally impacted differently by grims.

Attempting to mitigate it by spending precious curio slots on HP or grim resistance is also literally impacting them differently than those who don’t have to do it.

26

Another thing Vermintide 2 had already solved. Grim curse HP reduction was percentage based. So everyone was treated he same.

Every time I look there’s a new mechanic FS decided to simply make worse with Darktide. It boggles the mind.

27

Alright.
Then literally all enemy attacks literally also “discriminate“.
Because the damage you take is a fixed number, not a fixed % of your max hp.

Apparently you have convinced yourself, that treating everyone exactly the same, is actually discrimination.

How about stores? Do they discriminate against some of their customers, by asking everyone to pay an identical price for the same products?

2 Likes
28

Okay then.
Now i can make sense of your take and your original comparison.

Not as in it being a reasonable take or a good comparison, but in the sense of me being able to comprehend how you think.

OP disagrees with you on that.
The original complaint was about the impact of grimoire corruption on a veteran with no hp curios, no wound curio and no corruption resistance.

Based on that complaint, OP wants grimoire corruption to be nerfed to irrelevance, even when not making use of even a single tool of mitigation.

1 Like
29

This discussion is basically just equity vs equality. There’s arguments to be made for equity in some contexts but I don’t think there needs to be equity in video game mechanics, it’s fun for each class to have its own pros and cons.
If you want examples of equity in video games look at modern World of Warcraft, where every class is engineered to have the exact same DPS in every situation, and every tank is engineered to have the exact same effective HP and defensive cooldowns etc. Sure now you have equity but also now all the classes feel the same.

2 Likes
30

Yeah I have no more use for this guy. He’s unable to see past his own extremely simplistic material definition of fairness. The number is equal, therefore everything else must be equal. And if everything is equal then everything is fine. I guess he’s so triggered by the word “discrimination” that he’s gone into outrageous defensive mode and now he can only think in fallacious or bad faith arguments and Well Actually statements. Maybe he gets accused of being discriminatory very often for some reason.

Like, it’s really simple, right? Treating everybody exactly the same actually can be discriminatory, when you factor in starting conditions and relative effects. If you own a club and you require everyone who joins to pay an upfront entry fee of ten thousand dollars, that’s fine, you’re allowed, it’s your private club, but it’s not fair to everybody, it’s specifically selecting for people who have ten thousand dollars to spare, isn’t it? Stealing an apple from a man who has nothing but an apple vs stealing an apple from a man who owns five orchards. Asking two people to race a mile against each other when only one of them has working legs. Yeah it’s all the same, just buy some titanium prosthetic legs and stop whining.

31

Unlike you guys, i do not constantly argue, based on my personal opinion on what is “fair” or what is “equal”.
In fact, until now, i had not mentioned either of those two words even a single time.

And honestly, based on the analogies that you have come up with, my current evaluation of your opinion regarding what is “fair” or “equal”, is that it is worth absolutely nothing.

Hey there. Go easy with the projection.

So OP complained about the impact of corruption on the veteran class, when deliberately ignoring all 4 curio stats that would help with corruption.
That is comparable to a complaint about a classes toughness economy, coming from a player who chose to not use any of the toughness regen talents.
A complaint, coming from someone who deliberately ignores all existing solutions to a problem, is not to be taken serious.

Now apparently, you do not agree with OP in regard to veterans (and psykers) being hit too hard by grim corruption, but instead think that zealots and ogryn are not being hit hard enough.
That is not really related to OP’s issue and i do not really have an opinion on that, so i am not gonna discuss it.

However, you and @CommanderJ are claiming that grim corruption has to be changed, because it is unfair, since it does not have the same relative effect on all classes.

My issue with your arguments is, that you guys have not established, why it should have the same relative effect on all classes, and that you repeatedly claim that i am wrong, when i am in fact right.
I said that the effect of grim corruption is identical for all classes, which it is.
I said that all classes are being treated the same, which they are.
Everyone loses the same number of hit points to grim corruption by default.

You guys could accept that my statements are correct, and you could be open about demanding a change, based on your personal perception of what is “fair”.
Instead, you guys are constantly misrepresenting what i say, and claim that i am wrong, because the relative hp loss is not the same for everyone (which is obviously true and which i never denied).
You are painting me as a moron, when i am simply stating facts.

It bothers me, that you bring up comparisons and analogies, which are completely unfit, and claim that i am obviously wrong in somewhat defending the way it is now, while claiming that you guys are obviously right in demanding a change.

What really does not sit well with me, is that the arguments you use in order to come to the conclusion that the current grim corruption system is unfair (and that everyone is not being treated equally), is an argument that i do not believe you would apply to pretty much anything else.

For example, i am almost certain, that you would not claim that all enemy attacks are just as “unfair“ as grim corruption (as in dealing a fixed number of damage, instead of a fixed percentage).
Assuming that you do not deem regular damage to be unfair: Why not?
What is it, that makes grim corruption seem unfair to you, when regular damage is fine?

2 Likes
32

I have no stakes in this argument one way or the other, but to answer your question as I see it: you can’t control whether you take corruption damage because someone else makes the decision to take a grim, whereas you have effectively full control to avoid almost all other incoming damage.

1 Like
33

You have control in the sense that you can choose to not play a grimoire mission

34

Not if you quick play a lot and RNG hates you.

35

well if you quickplay you explicitly give up that control. The bonus rewards aren’t really worth it if one of the modifiers actively bothers you. Ever since they introduced pox gas I don’t quickplay anymore. Fair enough if people like it, but I don’t play the game to play easy mode with health stimms everywhere + waiting infront of gas filled rooms for 2 minutes completely breaking the pacing

2 Likes
36

Just run through it. Put those stims to use. :smiley:
All gas, no brakes!

37

honestly even if you do that the gamemode has way too many health stimms around. It’s actually crazy how every box has one. Doesn’t feel intentional

38

It’s the lamest of lame game modes, with or without lots of extra stims. It’s just not fun, which is a massive crime. Neither is the new bomber. No fun. Why have it?

1 Like
39

They could give us a toggle for QP to dodge grim maps and I think it would mostly solve the issue. I do think grims being % based like VT2 makes more sense though personally. You’d still be punished plenty hard on Psyker and Vet for them but Ogryn would also be threatened by them which just makes sense frankly.

1 Like
40

That’d be pretty opposed to what quickplay is supposed to be. It’s supposed to be “give up choice but fill any game for an extra reward”. The purpose is to have it fill any mission regardless of wether people might not like aspects of it by giving extra incentive to hit the “fill any” button.
It’d solve the issue but it’d create a new one of people disabling the one toggle they get because they’re scaredy cats, and then grimoire missions won’t refill easily with quickplay since few people don’t quickplay to begin with.