Voice of command might be the best ability in the game. I think it is too powerful, honestly. I say this as a voice of command main
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It has a slower charge than zealot but not by much and you get full toughness back plus all enemies immediately leave you alone and run off. As for cloak being a selfish ultimate what on earth are you talking about? My stealth support zealot build has saved me and my teams but over and over.
Do you have any idea how often I have clutched a run that should have been a TPK because I was able to do two revives undisturbed in a row while buffing the toughness of everyone around me while I do it? Saying voice of command is better for team play and is “Less selfish” is ridiculous at worst they are equal and at best cloak is far better. As for pox bursters if you need an entire ultimate to handle them as a problem then you need to get better in melee and learn to shove properly.
The gold toughness is nice yes, but two charges are better than one in terms of survivability not to mention when you’re invisible it might as well be a gold bar because you can’t hit what you can’t see. Yes, voice of command buffs but if you did your support build right, you’re just as effective as support with cloak if not more.
That’s actually how I’ve been using it myself and while I agree it’s the best keystone it’s still not worth it in my opinion. It’s usable yes but I have to sacrifice perks I like in my build to reach them. Too little bang for too much buck in my opinion.
Yeah, I wonder where they’re going…
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I give you a beginning of answer:
If you just leave and abandon your team sure if you use it to flank and outmaneuver them you can stop a tpk before it happens as soon as they turn their back on you plus leaving stealth gives me massive buffs with my build letting me smash through pretty much the entire hoard I tricked into turning its back with a well place grenade, raking fire or melee depending on what is most relevant to the enemies I just tricked. Calling the stealth build the coward build for this means one of two things.
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you have no idea how to play stealth right.
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You’ve never bothered playing stealth at all and just watched morons on public match making going Rambo instead of doing the job the vet was meant for which is buff support and rescue.
To be fair though if someone dumped their hoard problem on me like that it would leave a foul taste in my mouth too but that’s not what stealth is meant to be used to do.
NOTE: Deleted and reposted because I accidently did not tag the two of you I’m double posting this as a response to both of you because it applies to both and I’m not taking time out of my day to write two separate answers that can answer the same question. For the record also I’m not trying to start a fight just wanted to be clear about the tone of this conversation. I’m not trying to be a jerk I’m just arguing my point which frankly I think I’ve made more than a few good ones on this. Edits: Spelling and grammar errors
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If you just leave and abandon your team sure if you use it to flank and outmaneuver them you can stop a tpk before it happens as soon as they turn their back on you plus leaving stealth gives me massive buffs with my build letting me smash through pretty much the entire hoard I tricked into turning its back with a well place grenade, raking fire or melee depending on what is most relevant to the enemies I just tricked. Calling the stealth build the coward build for this means one of two things.
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you have no idea how to play stealth right.
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You’ve never bothered playing stealth at all and just watched morons on public match making going Rambo instead of doing the job the vet was meant for which is buff support and rescue.
To be fair though if someone dumped their hoard problem on me like that it would leave a foul taste in my mouth too but that’s not what stealth is meant to be used to do.
NOTE: Deleted and reposted because I accidently did not tag the two of you I’m double posting this as a response to both of you because it applies to both and I’m not taking time out of my day to write two separate answers that can answer the same question. For the record also I’m not trying to start a fight just wanted to be clear about the tone of this conversation. I’m not trying to be a jerk I’m just arguing my point which frankly I think I’ve made more than a few good ones on this. Edits: Spelling and grammar errors
It was just a joke… look what I have written about stealth.
I play this ability relatively often, especially the “medic” stealth veteran. +50% revive ally, 2 charges…
By the way, select text and choose QUOTE. It will be better than double identical posts.
I pretty much use my vet the exact same way you said you do I even took field Improvisation and the revive boost like you did. I know voice of command can auto res allies but with cloak I can save 2 easily even if they were downed on opposite sides of the room. I use a lot of speed based weapons with stamina and sprint efficiency. That way I can be wherever I’m needed for a revive in a hurry increasing the odds I reach you in time. I sprint faster towards downed allies too.
I do think the Vet tree still has some problems, but it’s really really hard to separate the real issues from the complaints of people who latched onto Vet early on because it was by far the easiest. I mean, you can tell a class is set up to give people a break when it has twice as much toughness as everyone else at launch.
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I love my Rambo Build! Don’t mess with it!
Graia brauto with hit and run… really great. And you can use the exact same build with recon lasrifles (MK VId or MK VII cause MKII is not worth looking it as the ammos pool is too bad)
TBH the vet kinda needs that boost where the others don’t really. With a proper psyker build and play you can almost completely avoid being touched at all because you keep them at a distance with op abilities like assail and smite. As for the Zealot they may only get half as much toughness, but they also are a lot stronger in melee combat and with the benefits provided by the ability that instant 50% quickly becomes 100 if you can hold your own in melee. I’ve barely played the Ogryn though so on that I have no comment, but the vet is pretty squishy by comparison to Ogryn and Zealots so that toughness refill is a life saver.
won’t speak about psyker as I don’t play it for a long long time… but what I see with them, is that they don’t need to keep at distance enemies (except smiters) cause they annihilate everything in front of them (void staff at least).
Zealot is a better at melee but suck with ranged. Veteran is good at melee and a god with ranged weapon… no, the vet is above zealot, and even without considering (bad) keystones.
Ogryn is “easy mod” as you can get so many ways to regen toughness. I don’t mean that Ogryns are not skilled, but in term of survability Ogryn is the easy class.
No, really not. In fact, I think that several talents of the vet tree are too strong when we see the result in game (example the revolver that can one shot all enemies).
EDIT: and I played veteran 40% of my time, 50% my zealot (and 10% ogryn). I tend now to play 60% veteran, 40% zealot.
I would say in melle vet is average unless you really bank heavy on melee perks which is an option it just comes at the cost of other perks. As for revolver 1 shots the only way to have that kind of power with the thing is consistent headshots with a highly customized min max build plus amazing skills as a player.
Is it possible? Yes, but to do what you’re saying reliably at all you have to put so much work in that barely anyone can even when they want to. I’m good but I’m not Clint Eastwood on auric good. I can beat Auric maelstrom with my squad but consistent perfect marksmanship on higher difficulties is really, really hard.
Not to mention after 511 hours of play I’ve only seen two people with the Deamon host one hit and as far as I’m aware I’ve never seen a single vet that could one shot anything they liked unless I somehow missed something that massive. One shotting anything with a revolver as a vet is news to me and must take a ridiculous amount of effort and tweaking.
Also if we’re gonna comment on overpowered weapons for a class what about the zealot Demon host one shot hammer I mentioned earlier? If you consider it a problem that’s not an issue exclusive to vets to be fair. As for Zealot sucking at range I would again disagree Zealots are not as good at shooting as vet’s true but saying they suck is too harsh IMO I’d say Acceptable is more accurate. Not great but still easily viable.
I also still think you’re wrong about the vet abilities being too strong. I think well-functioning is the term I’d use for cloak and voice of command is sub par by comparison. As for Marklight it’s complete trash and everyone knows it. I have only ever seen ahandful of vets use it since the skill tree update and every single time I asked why they were using it I got the same answer every time “Penances” NO ONE uses marklight if they don’t have to.
Now they definitely shouldn’t buff cloak it but nerfing it would be a huge mistake for both player approval and gameplay balance. When you want games to be tougher nerfing the player is never the answer, you’re better off doing things that add new layers of challenges like how when they added the Dreg Pox Bomber.
It added a whole new threat to the player that was effective, Unique and added more to the intensity of the fights as well as adding a feeling of dread the moment one of the grenades burst because you know you’re about to get cut up bad if you don’t clear the smoke fast. Other options are to add more attack moves to enemies or adding environmental hazards like with the new toxic spewer modifier that adds those stretches of green exploding pus that adds corruption.
Like anything in the game. But Veteran can be good at melee and with few talents. The zealot tree has no so powerful melee talent. You achieve the same result by picking a lot of talents.
At contrary, the zealot is far behind a veteran with ranged weapon.
That’s why I say that veteran is really strong. You get good melee + ranged damages far above the zealot. At contrary the zealot has better melee damage but poor ranged damages. In the end, vet has more power.
No amazing skill. Just few talents.
Aim the head, wait enough time to land a critic and see crushers dying.
And without these talents and with a melee orientated build you kill the crusher in 2 headshots. The zealot need 3. With the melee build you can kill all non ogryn elite/special in one shot (so sufficient in true game).
You missed when players were using stealth and griefing other players. It has solved also the zealot with thunderhammer that could 2 shots the DH.
here the patch notes:
Not sure it is possible… but, not significative as I have not met this situation since the quoted nerf above.
By the way, Thunderhammer is a poor weapon that has been left behind with the patch 13
No it is not. Train yourself with it. VoC is really good, and I think that it is one of the strongest ability of the game. However, no need to compare, this is different gameplays.
All keystones are bad. End of the story, at least for me.
I’ve never asked for these keystones that have restricted by a lot my possiblities. But they are here and I don’t use them.
What I can say is that without them, I have builds really strong with a veteran.
My actual build is a 100% toughness build with shovel and kantrael Ia. I may try specialist, just to look how it would work. However, it will means a build for that, and I feel like I loose too much for so few advantages. I hate switching weapon when not needed.
I never asked a vet stealth nerf.
I have always said that there is a problem with one stealth build and this is on zealot with a dagger (and maybe mobility needs a nerf on dagger).
I disagree. What is the sol;utions?
They buff all weapons to the plasma gun level, and then they would need to double the HP and resist of all enemies… at the end this is 4 times the work for the same result.
Or other solution, they add 5 new levels of difficulty for a game that lacks of players and have 7 difficulties (5 in normal - 2 in auric). I really don’t think it is a solution. Damnation has to be hard.
No doubt that, one day, we will get a damnation+… but this won’t be for balancing the game after buffing 80% of the weapons.
It is better to nerf what is too strong. But at same time (or just after), they need to buff what need to be buffed. There are useless/bad designed talents in all skill tree (at least on zealot, veteran and ogryn). They should be reworked.
And there’s a need to buff several weapons. But… there’s also a need to nerf too strong talents and weapons.
New conditions could be good (perso I just want an infinite horde condition), but won’t solve anything. What is too strong will remain too strong.
you play stealth, with krak granades and you say its better support for the team then voice of command? wheres your smokes granades for benefits of your team my man.
from reading all your posts, for me you clearly have almost no clue about most of the things your talking about.
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Very well said my friend. I understand you. Ppl who say VoC is “miles better” than stealth is either meta slave or haven’t really mastered the stealth.
I’m fine with people thinking VoC is great because it is great. But saying it’s way better than stealth is just, for the lack of a better word, nuts.
Stealth is way better in objective, amazing damage boost, amazing reviving tool, and if you have to kite far away because your whole team die and spawn far, stealth is your best bet.
Popping out of stealth staggers all the surrounding enemies, boost a lot of damage, and prevent you from being targeted. So what should a vet do when pops out of stealth with dmg boost and can’t be targeted? Melt every single things. If you know what to do, it’s better than shielding the whole team to die slowly. But yet again, not everybody is good enough.
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I say it’s miles better but I’m no meta slave. I gravitate towards Shouts/Taunts because they give me dopamine, knock trash over and stagger/stun the big guys. I like them regardless of whether they’re meta or not.
Infiltrate takes so many of your skill points to be fully upgraded and promotes very self-centred playstyles due to it essentially forcing aggro onto your teammates for some extra damage. VoC, though? VoC only takes up two of your skill points to be fully upgraded, then rewards you with highly effective Crowd Control and huge overshields to everyone in Coherency. If you use a Plasma Gun, VoC also grants you the ability to vent Heat with absolutely no Toughness damage.
Infiltrate’s embarrassingly niche and worthless when compared to VoC because the vast majority of situations where Infiltrate performs “better” than VoC are created by toxic Infiltrate Veterans.
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This is also why I laugh at any argument promoting stealth, you proceeded to list ‘not being attacked’ as somehow more valuable than everything VoC does without its 50% shorter cooldown taken into account.
Why do I need to hide from enemies? I can competently revive last alive in a threatening situation as Veteran. He has grenades and VoC. I can kite enemies. I literally see no value in replacing your ult with a ‘I NEED to hide!’ button. Being proactive is always superior. As is mastering the stressful situations. Its when you have those down pat that ‘going invisible’ demotes down the list to basically useless. There’s also a clear competency gap not noticing how VoC gold toughness makes allies essentially invincible, but stealth is apparently better because reviving? Lol try never going down in the first place.
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This. You just provided a perfect example of what I meant there.
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