Please remove Psykers on "No ammo pick ups" missions

[Ashrad]

Could just make perill build up faster and take longer to quell in that mission, or make quelling cost toughness like Plasma gun if it’s still too spammy.

We could have a nice discussion here if people aren’t just raging at each other, but well OP’s tone is pretty aggressive so it’s inevitable I guess.

[Elodie]

• Any weapon cannot refresh nor stack a DoT higher than its own cap
• Blazing Spirit caps at 6 SB (ranged, 2 crits), and 12 SB (melee, 3 crits)
• Purge caps at 16 SB, and a crit Purge takes ~5s to get there if you don’t count the charge time, longer if you do
• Wildfire is capped at 4 SB
• Only two things can go beyond those caps up to the global cap of 31 SB: Vent (+6 SB at 85%+ peril) and Perilous Combustion (+3 SB per special+ non-SB-kill, to anything in its melee range)
• SB has a logarithmic dmg curve which rises exponentially at first, and then tapers down to 50-20% per stack at 7-10 SB, 10% at ~13-15 SB, then even further to a few percent from there
• You need 6 SB minimum (+Warp Rider maybe, idr) to kill horde, ~9+ to kill specials, about 12+ to even start killing the weakest elites
• The dmg doesn’t rise much from 15 SB unless you go MUCH higher, and the only way to do that is with Perilous Combustion - which doesn’t trigger on SB itself -, and for that the enemy needs to be consistently grouped up very close together
• 15 SB does about 180 dmg base per tick to unyielding (3600-4000 hp / 180 = 20-22 ticks * 0.75 = TTK → 15.75s ) & maulers (3000 hp = TTK → 12.5s etc), 132 to maniacs, 195 to flak, based on a short test I did a while back. Ofc it decays by 1 stack per tick after 11 ticks, so its duration is only ~8s.

Soulblaze is definitely strong, but stacking it as high as you claim only happens temporarily and under special circumstances. The only weapon that can actually consistently stack it high enough to even matter vs. specialist nvm elites is Purge. The other weapons will generally kill whatever the measly Blazing Spirit could in a fraction of the time anyway (especially since they need 2-3 crits to even proc it high enough to kill even trash in <10s). SB in general is least effective against those elites with a TTK is so long you desperately need CC and damage on top. Which with Purge means you need to defer to primary spam’s CC to stay alive, which also slows the DoT application to a crawl on top.

Simply put, SB is at its weakest in a mod with mostly just those elites in it. Brittleness & Rending and anti-elite weapons & builds are far, far stronger. Yet you keep repeatedly bringing up SB as a problem, there of all places?

[Cheturnadcatii]

As psyker i can get psionics and fast bb cast from shriek. AND CAST THIS S*IT ALMOST INSTANTLY AND WITH NO PERIL COST AT ALL.

[MarxistDictator]

yeah and even with that brain burst is beyond garbage

[Andrii]

Guys, I don’t want to argue with you but isn’t it OP?
https://youtu.be/h6rGEcSk-EE?feature=shared

Who else can do this while doing almost nothing? Just pressing F (paying Respect).
Do you think it’s really fair on melee missions?

Sorry if my voice sounds aggressive I just want to share the issue and hope it’s not only my vision.

[Cheturnadcatii]

O my…this is absolutely standing still group of enemies…what a shocking expirience.

[Andrii]

Same situation when you play with a team… Standing behind an Ogryn and spreading this

[dragomusic]

@alsozara

Included in the no ammo/melee modifier is 2x peril generation and 1/2 effectiveness of venting, both active and passive for all Psyker blitz/staves.

Add this to base game please.

[LukeGlitch]

instead of removing psyker from this mealstrom just make a condition that no one will have ranged weapon and lets not forget for that to happen they need to stop spawning snipers and gunners in this mealstrom. Removing a class in this mealstrom just because you think that ruins the fun in this mealstrom is kinda insane for me but yeah each one with their opinions.

[CobaltNinja]

@psyk

oh yeah lets remove zealots from pox gas too

Removing Zealot in general would probably be healthier for the game, despite how much fun it is to play.

[psyk]

lets delete zealot psyker vet and ogryn only way the community i gonna be happy

[Hextechnician]

Do it at the same time they add admech class to the game. Surprise! Darktide is now a Mechanicus game spinoff.

(That would actually be a cool spinoff tho, coop shooter as 4 tech priests vs necrons)

[dragomusic]

@CobaltNinja

Removing Psyker

Fixed it for you

[Cheturnadcatii]

Why u hate psykers?

[dragomusic]

I could rant about it, but the main issues for me are:

• Practically no build variety
• Available builds are boring
• Blitzes are all pretty boring/unfun, and
  Assail and Smite are not fun to be on the
  same team as.
• Psyker Staves are so incredibly braindead to play, and than are very strong, that it is
  annoying and not fun to either use them or play with a Psyker using them.
• Peril barely exists as an important mechanic at the moment.

While there should be some fundamental changes to Psyker, this is why I think a good fix for now would be to make peril important, by making it increase faster and vent slower.

Also let Smite users blow themselves up.

[Pirx]

7. True Zealot

[Molonious]

@alsozara

Y’all come on. I’m sure we can manage a good faith discussion here if we try.

Both these things can be true at once:

1. Psyker staves fundamentally break the melee only modifier, in a clearly distinct way from strong melee builds.
2. Banning an entire archetype from a modifier is not a sensible or realistic solution to the above issue.

My counter proposal:
Included in the no ammo/melee modifier is 2x peril generation and 1/2 effectiveness of venting, both active and passive for all Psyker blitz/staves.

Edit: alternate proposal that just came to me. Modifier makes active venting cost HP. So you can still cruise on passive venting and have access to higher uptime at a cost.

These are some deep fundamental changes to a single class for one game mode where other classes simply have to be conservative with their ammo. They can still choose to use ranged weapons, with full effectiveness, they just can’t use them as much. Changing the Psyker in this way impacts all sort things, and is particularly punitive on a psyker choosing to use a gun as they’re both getting hit with the perils changes and ammo limits.

I’d suggest that the mode is fine as is and having one class that can sidestep the mission feature is less of an issue than making significant changes to said class for a niche instance. It’s fine that some classes deal with different mission conditions better/worse than others.

[Elodie]

That’s the problem with theory vs. practice.

Basically everything going on there is just Cerebral Lacerations. In the real game the enemy won’t be one stationary ball of 50 elites, but a mix of stuff moving and changing with reinforcements coming in every moment. Since they won’t be all specials+ either and your team will be pitching in too, most kills can’t even proc CL. So CL will never reach stacks even close to like that but instead reset constantly.

I’ve used it on most my builds with the debuff mod since almost a year ago so I know.

More than that, that made it look suspiciously like CL is one of those things that don’t work right in the grinder & with Creature Spawner. SB shouldn’t be proccing CL and Surge definitely shouldn’t be nabbing enough kills to explain that dmg & spread.

[Tzcheese]

You forgot that you’re going to go full smyker.

[murphIV]

I actually like playing these with several Psykers it’s good fun!