I dont think so.
Right now the Eviscerator is doing nothing right. No cleave to speak of. No single target dps, or burst to speak of. Horrible mobility/survivability.
Just giving it more cleave turns it into a worse Heavy Sword. Giving it a bit of single target burst will collide with the hammer. Giving it alot of single target dps will make it a worse axe. Just upping the defensive stats will not make it shine above other, or more like any other, weapon.
Handing out all three will make it a fancy Axe. We already got plenty of those.
If it was up to me, which it obviously isnt, I would crank the damage and cleave scale to overdrive, half the effective dodges, remove a bit of stamina, and turn it into the murderstick it should be. Lower difficulties might cry its OP, since survivability is worth hardly anything there, but it will hurt to bring it into damnation(+). It would probably also be rather fun to play.
to be fair killingpower is already abundant in lower difficulties, i don’t think your proposition would stick out that much, if anything you’d waste alot of your damge due to overkill
I support this idea. It should hit like a train on normal swings and have a focus on cleave/cleave damage/damage. It feels right to have the giant two handed chain sword do great anti-horde. The special is and would continue to be perfectly good at hard targets.
Anyone else notice while using the evis that if you’re using a lot of heavy 1’s you slow down like you’re in the swing animation well after you’ve finished it? It seems very inconsistent.
I’m confused why we are discussing the default attack chains. These aren’t the full potential of any weapon. Tide games allow you to mix light and heavy attacks in a chain to get better results depending on a target. Evi actually has few interesting options. I’m leaving out block and “Q” cancelling, as I don’t think they (especially weapon swapping cancel) should be a thing. Weapon swapping should not allow you to attack faster, if anything you should be rewarded with attack speed for custom attack combos.
What Evi suffers from is lack of cleave damage. Which is rather ironic for a 2h weapon. With Savage Sweep and Wrath combined you are able to hit and stagger up to 20 targets with Heavy1. You do damage to the first, 3?
In general I think this is a great example of the present design limitation, with 5 basic weapon characterstics. Having two stats to govern cleave is a bad idea as it led to this problem. Cleave should provide you with the idea how how many targets you can hit and damage. Every target you hit in a cleaving attack should recieve incrementally lower damage due to the loss of energy.
That’s a simple question.
Do you use the attack chain? I have seen the several comments that try to say me that is great to have to do push + attack or heavy followed by light etc.
My question is… do you, at one time, use the attack chain like light light light light so stikedown, vanguard, vanguard, strikedown.
My opinion is that this weapon, with this attack chain is just garbage.
Other things, I let the players that use this thing debatting with you. Until we get a correct attack chain… this weapon is a big no for me.
I use the light attack combo vs one / few enemies. Heavy attacks I usually mix with lights depending on target. Horde: Heavy followed by light. Less frequently as you barely ever have fight vs one enemy: light followed by heavy.
I like the Evi attacks, as you have variety you can mix depending on need. My problems with the weapon lie with at the core of cleave mechanics.
If I’m against a Mauler or Lord:
Light 1->Heavy 2->Light 1->Heavy 2…
If against horde:
Heavy 1->Light 2->Heavy 1->Light 2…
Otherwise I improvise, if i have a mixed horde I will start with the normal horde move and then switch to heavy only to deal with the remaining ones and the elites
Now I quit this thread. As I said, the evis is a big no for me and this the only chain weapon I would have loved to use.
So… I really don’t care what they do about these weapons.
And until we get an evis with an interesting attack chain, well… this will always be an useless weapon for me. I doubt there are a lot of players that use this weapon…
It’s bad because it doesn’t have any overtuned blessing like the Heavy Swords
+75%power +50% damage would make it a great weapon.
I dislike having complex attack chains in this game as I often find the timings to just mess up.
Could do it fine in VT, can’t do it here. Skill issue.
Nonetheless, weapons that have clunky moveset (looking at you second TH), just get phased out because ease of use beats power on paper
The thing with Bleed at the moment, is that the damage caps at 16 stacks.
Bloodletting makes crited enemies bleed for 1 stack (nothing), and a crit enemy is usually dead so it doesn’t matter.
Bleed damage should be higher or cap sooner for it to have any real effect.
As a hagbane enthusiast, DoT builds work, if they can be spread well enough and reach high numbers quickly enough.
With bleed in DT, what will happen is:
You will bleed an enemy, apply a few bleed stacks, then hit it again to apply more, but kill it in the process, making bleed gimmickey.
And when you stack enough, the time for bleed to deal it’s full damage is just stupidly long, so other people usually kill your targets before you do (denying you toughness).
IIRC, Ev has a 10 bleed stack blessing, which is good. But again, how many targets can you inflict with it, and how often will you be faced with a situation where you are facing as many enemies within Cleave Reach.
As far as I know, bloodletting gives 2 stacks. With a Knife with Flesh Tearer, it’s 6. If it also has Lacerate it’s 10 if it wasn’t a weak spot hit. This is the same as the Evi blessing (that is pretty useless).
Bleed isn’t weak it’s just gimmicky. It still has very good unyielding damage and cross-class synergy. Bloodletting is still good just for the crit bonus on heavy targets like Bosses and Ogryn running Caxe for example.
NOT all weapons have simple movesets. Not all weapons offer single target light attacks and heavies which are only vs horde or vice versa. Atm we have variety in light and heavy attacks, which you can mix and match with a little bit of weapon knowledge. What is wrong in that?
What is your suggestion on how to improve the default attack chains then?
I think the chain attack question is more a philosophy dilemna than a balance question. Vtide veterant are already used to having combo and chain breaking on some weapons (like the warpriest two handed hammer or the halberd). And it does feel great to be able to understand and select a combo based on the situation.
I use chain breaking to handle large horde, special against elite and light chain to dispose of wandering ennemies where speed matter more than the rest. And I like having that polyvalence where the thunder hammer get weak against hord and expose you after the special.
I’d say big contributors for this in Darktide are:
longer delays when your character draws back their weapon during the onset of a swing
longer delays after pushing
delayed dodge windows
inconsistent dodge timings/recovery across weapons
dodge resetting stamina regen
All this makes it so you have a harder time cc-ing stuff in front of you through pushes/dodges and therefore requires you to cc more through hitting enemies. This means you have to be constantly attacking and if you try to use very complex attack chains at the same time will result in you having to play encounters perfectly to not get hit. This also means that weapons using their push-attack a lot in their chains run into stamina issues much more quickly than in V2.
A huge thing with the stamina issue, is that dodge now prevents stamina from recovering.
So you essentially juggle between the two defensive layers Doge and Block
Worse I’d say.
I wouldn’t even call it juggling tbh, because that insinuates you can use one resource, while recovering the other.
It basically puts the amount of time you can spent in melee and not attacking on a hard timer and further sends you down a spiral upon getting hit and thereby relegates stamina to being a resource that ought to be conserved and not used.
Additionally it limits how much a weapon can be built around having a strong push-attack.
The chain-axe is unusable on Veteran, because its push-attack is its only redeeming feature, while it is unable to cc groups in front of you and Veteran posesses the worst stamina regen delay in the game. The fact that he cannot regen stamina while dodging is the final nail in the coffin here.
I get the argument of people wanting resource management to be a thing, but at the same time you gotta realize what this does in terms of limiting players’ and weapon design options.
I am not willing to agree with the statement that the push-attack is its only redeeming feature. However as the resident chaxe lunatic I will make an effort to grind out a decent chaxe on my Veteran and test it out.
I am interested in this arguement. It rarely comes up for me as a zealot who runs pure samina curios but I have encountered this problem as a veteran using the power sword. The only issue is siloed resources makes trying to get together any kind of build a bit of a pain on my off-classes. But at least with the recent plasma gun buff I have a reason to play Vet again. As much as the Vet succeeds at making 40k infantry combat cool I just prefer melee in Darktide so I favor Zealot except for the high-flavor weapons like Plasma.
I found a use for it by running it with braced autogun or laspistol. Both of these builds are very melee-light, so you only need to use it for the crusher and other elite kills. Braced uses the gun for hordes and laspistol build uses grenades. I did use it against normal enemies from time to time, but due to the +power interactions, it’s pretty hard to get used to… +Stam curio helps a lot.
