Sure, but this is a team based shooter. Similar to literally all games, some realism (or lore accuracy) is traded for improved gameplay mechanics. Balance is irrefutably important in any game with classes and weapons.
But again I think it makes perfect sense to keep the bolter and power sword very powerful. Still other weapons should be much closer to their level of performance.
More ammo for guns like the revolver, would really be great. Of course in addition to some other buffs perhaps, such as faster reloading. Ammo does feel brutally scarce at times, especially when most players play Veteran. At least most are sharing with the resource though, so that helps in the meantime.
I disagree with Bolter or Power Sword being issue. I know that people play those weapons but they are just fun. Bolter sounds, feels and deals like Bolter should. This is hands down then first ever Bolter in 40k games history that feels like proper bolter. It’s supposed to be stronger than other range weapons (bar Plasma Gun which should feel strong too) becasue it’s 40k. You can’t just “balance” weapons in 40k games so that a freaking stupid axe is as strong as Power Sword, Thunder Hammer etc. You can’t make autoguns being as good as Plasma Guns, Flamers, Multi-Meltas or Bolters.
This game will bring in tons and tons of 40k fans, who are DESPERATE for good 40k game. When they will finally unlock their most desired “power fantasy” weapons they were dreaming of to use in 40k melee/shooter and they are not hands down doing what they suppose to do with enemies then you will have float of people saying that this is dog shite 40k game and you will have negative reviews on Steam (I am not joking) soley based on fact that for example Bolter is not one-two shotting most specials/trash etc.
When you make 40k game you make 40k game. Certain weapons needs to be represented accurate. There is also a reason why some weapons are unlocked for us on higher trust levels. It shows that they are supposed to be stronger than other “generic” options.
What this game need is more fun, becasue right now let’s be honest the most fun weapons to use are: Eviscerator, Power Sword, Bolter, Flamer, Lightning Staff, Force Sword, Cleaver, Shield + Mace and Ripper, Lasguns. They feel right, they feel as they supposed to feel. The weapons like Thunder Hammer needs AOE explosion, Chainswords and Chainsaxes on Rev attack that lock you in animation needs to KILL human-sized armored enemies in one hit, period (Maulers, Zerkers etc. everything bar Ogryns) so they feel like anti-armor power vs animation lock is worth. Autoguns need huge ammo buff and hip-fire accuracy buff so they feel like your run-n-gun fun, when you run and hip-fire everything like in shooter. Heavy Lasgun Pistol and Revolver need to have the highest (bar scoped dedicated sniper rifle) headshot damage modifers so they feel like headpoppers. Plasma Gun needs to have it’s overheating rate buff by half etc.
The game needs to be fun. Tons of people after official release will play this game JUST FOR the Bolter, power sword, chainsword or Thunder Hammer alone. That’s how 40k games are.
So I don’t agree with making what’s currently fun and great to use worse but making other options to be worth 40k game. There is sadly a very thin line in game like this where “balancing” means that suddenly something just doesn’t feel right.
It’s like someone would say in CoD or Battlefield “please balance 50 cal BMG sniper rifle becasue it one-shot body shot everyone vs other sniper rifles”. I mean… it’s 50 cal BMG. If it won’t do that: nobody wold use it vs normal snipers and it wouldn’t feel right. If you get hit by 50 cal, you die. It needs to feel 50 cal. Same with bolter, it’s like full-auto BMG on steroids. It needs to work and feel like that or what’s the point to even put it in 40k game? Same with other iconic 40k weapons.
Sadly the more people will call for stuff like that the more this game will stop to be 40k game and will start to be another “yeah, L4D in 40k” game.
Think it would be nice if the weapon pools shifted around a bit. Maybe giving the Veteran the Flamer when they themselves have very little horde options and giving the Zealot the bolter, which is weaker without the expanded ammo cap and career skill but still obscenely strong due to the fact its, y’know, a bolter, makes sense to me. Otherwise reducing the max ammo the Bolter can have (makes sense, who keeps that lying around when the enemies don’t use bolters at all) might be another solution to the balancing.
Giving the Zealot the power sword and the chainsword to the Veteran also makes more sense to me, as Sergeants and other high ranking guardsmen often use chain weapons rather than force weapons, which would also make up an inquisitor or commissar’s kit.
No. Zealot already has Thunder Hammer, Eviscerator and Flamer. Veteran has Power Sword and Plasma Gun. Bolter is shared between them. Zealot already has more exclusive weapons.
Besides Zealots in Lore are mostly shown with Hammers or Evis. Not Power Swords which are prestige weapons. And as it says in Warhammer wiki: “Munitorium Pattern (Power Swords) : Used by Imperial Guard Officers after acts of valor and members of the Inquisiton” which makes sense as you unlock it as high thrust veteran in service if Inquisition.
It’s also part of the gameplay loop to prolong game. Wanna use Power Sword? Go level up Veteran. Wanna use Eviscerator. Go level up Zealot. Wanna use Force Sword? Go Level up Psyker etc. Giving all cool 40k weapons to one class would destroy that too. Every class get’s their share of iconic 40k toys and that’s the point.
The Bolter does not need to be nerfed, it’s just that the other weapons need to be buffed.
If the game gets to a point where two good bursts from the Bolter don’t put most of the enemies down, I’d say that for Darktide, “it’s over.”
Some of the weapons in Warhammer 40,000 are just supposed to be better then other weapons. The increased punch needs to be maintained.
Same goes for the power sword - if it doesn’t feel powerful, what’s the point?
Anyway, I feel like the Bolter has already been ““balanced”” by the unnecessary and obnoxious weapon-switch rack-fondle animation.
If you are worried about the replayability of the game and build variety, ask why we have so few weapons as it is. We have very little variety to begin with.
So please, stop being evil, wanting to ruin the fun - thinking that the fun weapons need to be nerfed into parity with the less fun ones - when we’d all be better off saying, hey, Fatshark! Where’s the Bolt Pistol? The Plasma Pistol? The Meltagun? The Longlas? The Hellgun and Hellpistol? Power-axe? POWER-FIST? How about a Combi-Bolter?
Where’s dual-wielding, pistol and melee weapon combinations?
If this game wants to survive and sell its class DLC’s, they’re going to need to focus on adding new fun weapons that capture the feeling you imagine reading about them in the codexes and the books and so on.
What it doesn’t need is an endless line of “balancing updates” that eventually make the lasgun equivalent to the bolter.
Exactly. Like what’s next. We will try to balance Multi-Melta to be on par with freaking shotgun? Trying to make Power Fist being on pair with a combat knife?
That’s not how you make 40k game.
Right, but there’s gotta be some compromise and some measure of balance. What’re some proposals for fixing the issue?
I’m still of the mind reducing the Bolter’s ammo max is a fine way to balance it, or reducing the ammo resupplied unless from an ammo box as it’s not a weapon typical to the enemy and wouldn’t reasonably be found among them.
Make other weapons that are currently unfun fun. There are obvious weapons that need to be buffed to make them cool and fun like Thunder Hammer, autoguns (ammo pool!!!) etc.
The solution is not to make stuff that is currently fun to stop being fun. In the end it’s not PvP game. It won’t be balance that will make this game last, but fun. People will still log in this game in next 2 years just “I just wanted to shoot that Bolter again and watch stuff explode”.
Like we don’t want our iconic 40k weapons to be like current Thunder Hammer that is just useless no Diff 4-5, right? We want Thunder Hammer to feel like Thunder Hammer. Like it did here:
When you got that in game, from first time you swing it you knew you are handling something special even if you didn’t know anything about 40k. And boy, it was best part of the game!
I think that increasing the ranged power weapon ammunition reserve (Bolter, Plasma, Melta, etc.) and in exchange having them only replenished by the ammo crates or a rarer special ammunition resource is a great way to actually balance them.
For example, in Hunt Showdown there are weapons that only refill at special ammo crates. Works very well there; that’s a PVP game though, so balance must be considered differently, as the fun from a weapon that has serious punch is to the detriment of who, exactly? The enemy AI?
i played vermintide for 4k hours and the most unfun time i had at any given period were the times where weapon variety is at it lowest point (looking at you moonbow and soat) balance IS FUN its paramount for variety and exploring builds
Not to rain on your parade, but we’ll likely get bolter nerfs and that would be it. It would be very sad to see its power nerfed, but I’m perfectly okay with having other nerfs (reload, ammo limit).
Fatshark is making a game, not a power trip for 40K fans. And for a game to work well, it has to offer proper resistance at the highest difficulties. Currently things like Bolter bypass that all too much. On the other hand, a lot of things doesn’t work that well with increasing difficulty (BB not scaling would be one such glaring example).
That’s reasonable, but that’s also a Space Marine carrying a greathammer. What we have now is probably in effect half that hammer’s size and is being used by a mere man. It should feel like an armor piercing tank killer in those hands, not a force of raw destruction like it was in 40kSM. The weapons should exist to fill niches in a class’s arsenal and allow them to play various playstyles like in V2. They might be weapons of yore, but they’re playstyles in this, not wargear.
It’s also important to note that higher levels need higher tier gear. You won’t be running them until you’re equipped with purples and golds, which isn’t handled well by the current loot/shop system. I think the issue might be the false sense of progression in items when the higher tiers mandate more than your account level, which isn’t explained well (dmg tied to item level) and isn’t supplemented by anything (one purple/gold from weeklies if it doesn’t drop or you watch the shops like a hawk)
You wrote: “Please BALANCE weapons”.
Fatshark read: “Please nerf Bolter and Power Sword.”
If characters will use sharper part of the shovel it could deal more damage on heavy attacks. 
Weapon variety does not require that in-universe power weapons be rendered inert, anti-satisfying, etc etc just so that they can be on balance parity with weapons that aren’t supposed to be on parity with them.
Weapon variety requires buffing the weak weapons. This isn’t a PVP game. Powerful weapons that are satisfying to use must be remain satisfying, especially when many people will be buying this game because its bolter has been hyped up “as the best bolter” in 40k video-games.
The point is the feeling the game gave you when you got it. The Thunder Hammer right now suffers from two things:
The picture was the reference that if you get certain weapon in 40k, it needs to behave like that weapon in 40k. As I said: when you make a 40k game there are some rules that you need to follow to make it successful 40k game. Vermintide was different game. Long Bow, handgun, sword, axe, two handed sword etc. Generic weapons for most part.
But 40k with it’s iconic super powerfull weapons is different kind of game. Some weapons just need to be stronger than others, because otherwise what’s the point of even putting them in 40k game. This doesn’t mean that other weapons should not be viable to run (that’s why they need buffs) but “power fantasy” is part of 40k, whenever someone like it or not.
It’s a coop PVE game. There are many ways to balance such a game that do not involve over-nerfing weapons and removing the power fantasy satisfaction that is at the core of this specific genre.
It’s also worth noting that with so many weapon stats being near impossible to see and randomized to boot, everyone’s mileage varies to begin with.
But if the Bolter gets to a point where it isn’t putting down armored enemies in a good thumping burst, “it’s over” for Darktide. Same can be said if the Eviscerator stops chopping masses in two with a heavy swipe.
I think carapace enemies are intentionally designed to be wave breakers and something the party has to focus on and work around, and are already easily dispatched quickly without expending large amounts of resources if everyone is doing their job right, and adds a lot of value to psykers who can bypass armor completely.
It’s a game of skill and teamwork. Making weapons cover every angle of approach because it’s what the power fantasy implores isn’t healthy for the game, and it’s why people are running into the wall of not being able to escape Malice difficulty while claiming Psyker and Zealot are useless.
Anyways, nerf the Bolter ammo pickups. Everything else could use a pass on how Suppression and stagger severely effects the ranged weapon experience and makes it difficult for guns that require more application, like autos and lasguns, to keep up with Revolvers and Bolters where there’s less risk traded off for the power per shot you’re getting.
They could balance the inferior weapons by:
-giving them higher ammo reserves. In effect making them more ammo efficient since more would replenish per pickup.
-Make pickups grant more clips, since low-end ammo is much more common
It makes 0 sense (both balance/lore) that players refill a clip of bolter ammo per pickup, but only get back 5 pistol shots.
Yes, it’s a coop PvE game where diff 5 should feel pretty hard.
Weapons that are so good that pretty much everyone takes them to diff 5 are the weapons that make diff 5 easier than it should be.
The game has mellowed considerably since VT (last difficulty in VT was something else entirely than in VT2), but it doesn’t look like there’s any merit in mellowing even further - people will quickly get bored with it and move on, which is very contrary to Fatshark making Darktide even more “persistent” and long-term game by going dedicated servers route.
