I respect your personal opinion but please stop acting as if you speak for a silent majority. Most answering in this threat disagree in various ways with your conclusions.
There is no data suggesting “players” want this. I’m a player. I don’t want your suggestions in this thread to become implemented.
I said what they ARE like, not what they “like.”
Players aren’t going to cooperate with someone’s grand vision, espeically when their grand vision is as clearly defined as a Jackson Pollock painting.
Even you admitted it is really useful here:
If a shovel had the sprint speed of a revolver, would you have taken the knife or the shovel? What if the helbore didn’t slow you down so much?
And while I can’t claim to have hard numbers on weapon selection, I can tell you what patterns I’ve noticed.
I see a lot of vets with a power or chainsword, and a pistol or revolver. slow mover/faster mover.
I see much less of the reverse since their only choice for a fast mover in the melee slot is a knife.
Next a lot of columnus autoguns, which is also a fairly fast mover.
Most popular weapon with psykers is dueling sword, again fast mover.
A majority of players appear to be limiting their selections to avoid being slowed beyond a certain amount.
It makes sense for more melee focused characters or playstyles to offer more mobility. If such player uses the mobility to run away from the rest of the team, he should die on being overwhelmed by the enemies. If that didn’t happen, there might be 2 reasons:
What FS could do to fix that?
I believe the good start would be to introduce solo mod for those who want to challenge themself without destroying experience for other players.
And perhaps revisit certain “good at surviving can solo it all” class and tune its immortality a bit down.
Maybe general agility, but not purely point A to point B, as all characters need to traverse the same distances, and all characters need to make it to pickups, and they did put pickups off the main run in the side streets.
Which would bring us back to the suggestion that between fights slower characters could get a boost to get around.
Also, there’s not really any non-melee characters anymore. Most vets take voice and a big sword, not volley fire plus…
If you’re more melee focused for whatever reason you should be able to dash to enemies faster to counter disadvantage of needing to get closer.
It’s true that all players have to use melee weapons as well but it might be rather for defensive purposes against horde or so. That’s the difference between melee focused character who uses melee weapons also to attack when appropriate.
In other words, same way as ranged focused characters are using melee weapon as a backup, melee focused characters are using ranged weapon as a backup. Of course there is a whole spectrum of playstyles in between.
If you’re more ranged focused for whatever reason you should be able to dash away from enemies faster and to good firing positions faster to counter disadvantage of allies blocking your shots and inability to block.
I think you still don’t get that it’s the game design choice and balancing point of the game. Saying that you should be able to back down when situation calls for it. But you should not be able outrun or skip enemies in your path most of the time. That would trivialize the game a lot.
I think you still don’t get that is something fat shark has been really bad at for darktide.
We already can. Getting to pickups faster isn’t going to change that.
THE THING YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT IS ALREADY IN THE GAME.
Alright lets just say that I disagree with you. I’m actually glad that there is a game that doesn’t incentivise players to play running simulator for once. Once again problem with picking stuff isn’t about speed. I personally don’t share your problems at all. Maybe YOU should try slow down, take it easy and enjoy the game instead of stressing about all these things.
You don’t see Flamer’s anymore because
A) The damage type does not seem to count towards any of the weeklies
B) The nerf to burn damage makes it a poor choice of weapon, since its effectively only useful for Hordes. And you don’t waste ammo on the horde, as you can easily deal with the Horde in Melee.
So what? In this entire thread you still haven’t made a case for why this is bad, especially since, functionally, in actual play the Psyker will easily catch up once the Zealot is stuck in the enemy.
You complain about being left behind, but it is your teammates that are leaving you behind. There are two in this equation. All it takes is one teammate to look out for you and close the gap between you and them and it is a non issue.
Not to mention that you could… you know… communicate with the team.
Why is it bad? You still haven’t told us why, beyond “i don’t like it” and insisting that it is bad.
The Irony is that you are only talking to fellow players here and yet they are telling you how the is supposed to work. All without a Dev telling them, because the Devs don’t communicate with us. We can make threads literally asking for the Devs to communicate with us and tell us how something is intended to be used and we are still ignored.
So when another player points out “X is supposed to be used Y” then it usually is self evident.
The issue with selfish Zealots not caring about their Teammates is not one of bad design. It is about people being selfish in Video games and the game not punishing them for it.
Just like your two graphics employed here:
You know what is wrong about them? The Veteran doesn’t need to come at the enemy from a 90° Angle. The Veteran can just take 3 steps to the right and still get a good shot at the enemy. Especially due to perspective and the Zealot getting smaller in the distance.
And in the 2nd graphic, it assumes that the Veteran hasn’t moved at all. Yet the Veteran knows the Zealot will move on, and could consequently slowly but surely move up while the Zealot is still fighting. After all the Veteran doesn’t need to shoot the Horde. Such a need only a raises when you have a scoreboard and fear you fall behind the team in the damage stat. Which is exactly the reason why the Devs decided against a Scoreboard in this game.
Why? That still doesn’t explain why.
I’ve played this game for a year. Ogryn and Veteran are my most played Classes and i collect a lot of plasteel… I never had issues keeping up with the team. Sure, i lack behind sometimes, but that is only because i choose to go the long way around, or take detours. That is my fault, not the team’s fault.
So i am finding it difficult to see why you seem to have such a big issue with keeping up with the team. When i can do it, why can’t you? You never explained any of this.
The diagram is easy enough to understand and fundamentally wrong. As i said, the first diagram just highlights the Veteran making a poor positioning choice and the 2nd one is the Veteran not moving up while he has the time to. His ranged attacks don’t really distinguish between 10 meters and 15 meters, unless its a close range weapon that has a damage fall off beyond 10meters.
Nothing prevents the Veteran from taking a shot or two, taking a step forward, taking another shot, another step. If you are really so worried about keeping up, then you can just do that and be basically breathing down the Zealots neck before he is done with whatever he was fighting.
Even the Marksman Keystone gives you a few seconds grace period in which you can move. Indicating that the Devs think this is how we should play that Keystone. You stop, you build stacks and then shot-step-shot-step.
And yet in nearly thousand hours of playing this game, i haven’t really experienced the game the way you paint it. Despite playing Veteran, Ogryn and Psyker for the vast majority of them. Zealot is probably my least played Class. And i don’t build for “speed” either. Yet, i do not experience the game the way you claim it is played. Not with Randoms, not with my Friends… and i have a very “aggressive” Zealot playing Friend that tends to rarely look back. And yet i have no issue keeping up with him, even in Auric Maelstroms and HISTs on Damnation.
I am still playing my Helbore more than my Plasma Rifle on Veteran, and i have yet to use a Revolver on my Vet. I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of turning my Veteran into a discount Zealot.
So while your question was directed to Eisenfaust, i am playing my Veteran with the Marksman Keystone, building max stacks usually, and i am playing with Helbore and Shovel or Antax Combat Axe most of the time. I am picking up a lot of Plasteel, and i have no issue keeping up with my Team, collecting and positioning myself to aid them.
I am really needing you to explain to me where the issue is, because i am not experiencing what you are claiming, which makes me assume its a personal issue not a game issue.
Again, i see most Psykers with a Force Sword, not a Dueling Saber. And if Speed was the reason to pick it, Psyker gets access to knives.
Source? Again, not how i experience the game.
You haven’t really been doing a good job at explaining the issue. Don’t blame us for not seeing the glory of your suggestion when the proposed reality you paint is far removed from how I experience the game, nor my inability to understand what exactly the issue is with you arriving to the fight 5 seconds late.
No idea what you are trying to say with that either. Again, the games i am playing we tend to take 30ish minutes, going home with around 700 plasteel. Given that they are HIST mostly… think that is a good time to plasteel turn out, all things considered. And again, i never felt like i had problems keeping up with the team, despite being the “rear guard”.
Crafting sucks I can’t denny that. But increasing movement speed isn’t solution. Honestly I’ve learnt to avoid desire for a better weapons and rather focus on the gameplay enjoyment. Eventualy you’ll get something better. Also I’m keeping high hopes that FS is going to do something about crafting in the end.
And that itself is an extraordinary slam against the game design.
That said, since you were on about avoiding enemies, I made you this. I disabled enemy respawn and took out the hound and the mutant in advance, then turned on the rest. Granted, no mutant is a big advantage, but it still demonstrates what’s possible currently.
Also, sorry about the resolution, I’m not good with compression and I had to compress it a ton to fit the forum limitations.
BTW, I sympathize with the desire not to just run to the elevator. I do. I want to be able to get around effectively with any loadout.
And what might be ideal is to let us go to knife speed with blitz selected, and to give us a bonus move speed when we haven’t been targeted for two seconds and meet some sort of set of rules that would allow us to get into the side hallways or into position.
What those rules should be I’d need more time to think on, but DRG has a perk where when you sprint for 2 seconds you get a significant boost for as long as you like.
Hell, maybe they could just give us a servo skull that will check the crates we tag and fetch anything we tag twice really fast.
I’ve already commented on that:
Also I’ve stated:
If you take the most mobile character in the game, give it the most mobile weapon and use the most mobile ability, that’s a fair exception and I’m glad the game allows that. But you should also take into account that this does not reflect a real mission, where enemies are spawning in your way, you’re not in a huge open space arena, etc.
True, but I don’t want to wreck other people’s game by doing that in a real mission, though I think I could, and a push and a grenade here and there along with a weapon you can shoot while sprinting will go a long way to allowing any class to skip most enemies.
TBF, I’ve often needed to do such while collecting plasteel alone while the team rushes down the center with no thought whatsoever except ‘get to the elevator as fast as possible.’
And I’ve had to deal with the enemies they left behind when I got back from getting the plasteel. Honestly they would have had to wait in the elevator less if they didn’t rush so hard, since it took me twice as long to get there with all the things they skipped.
I might can come up with a video reflecting it, but I can’t do it as ‘on demand’ as the above.
Just got out of a run trying out a shotgun, a Kantreal IX with manstopper and scattershot, and I still had room to mess with a perk so +5 to crit.
I mostly really liked it, but it had a sprint speed of 0.25, which incidently is the same my powersword.
Now, everyone knows the powersword ‘needs to have low mobility to counteract it’s amazing cleave.’
Fair enough when it comes to dodges, but taking out the shotgun rreminded me, yet agian, of how badly Darktide needs a full repass of all sprint speeds.
Almost everything vet has is 0.25, or less. The exceptions are knife, laser pistol, (both 0.90-ish) revolver and columbus and mg IV (0.58ish)
There is literally NOTHING in vet’s melee slot that I can find that is faster then a power-sword except the knife.
0.50 needs to be the default speed, not 0.25. Now, you could make the case that some of them should be slow, but we shouldn’t be slow in both slots. Shotguns aren’t that heavy, though the ammo is, and that’s why it’s logical that we have less of it with a shotgun and it loads slower.
But we should still be able to run as fast as we can with an autogun. Plus it’s close range, so we need to get closer to use it.
And here’s a good reason why, for those of you who don’t like plasteel. In my run, someone got barreled and I had quite a long way to go to pull them up. Almost didn’t make it because my max speed for both weapons was 0.25.
If nothing else, make the hypo slot/grenade slot/even just the scanner slot… always accessable and knife speed so we can cover distance to get to a team member who needs help!
But even so, every vet melee weapon (except knife) is slow. Incidentally same for Ogryn and Psyker (except dueling sword which is knife speed, thus explaining part of it’s popularity.)
On my ogryn, I found that carrying a load was actually FASTER then my club. My short club weights more then a big container? That’s silly, and it’s another demonstration on why movement speed needs another pass for logic/consistency/utility across the board.
Please, separate dodge count/distance from sprint speed/stamina consumption and let us keep up/get to someone who needs help/gather plasteel!
Increase all weapons, NOT to knife speed, but to AUTOGUN speed.
sounds like knife speed needs to be nerfed to me.
Eh, I’m less concerned about top end as I am about the bottom. If everything except maybe plasma gun was brought up to medium (+0.60) I’d be pretty happy. Would really open up a lot of options.
Stamina could also use a ‘over-consumption’ inspection pass on a lot of them, but that’s more complicated and I don’t have numbers on it yet.
For me personally the game plays almost too fast and i’d like it had some more tactical aproach.
I dont want to make it R6 or RoN, but remove the highspeed builds.
Highspeed removes a lot of difficulty as you just dont get hit, becaue you are too fast most of the time.
To beat the game speedrunning and dodging to slash almost everything not able to react is boring as hell and feels like playing on steroids.
I know there are some players who love this kind of gameplay or playstyle, but i dont.
Some of the slower weapons like Flamer, a Hellbore III without Onlaught or just having a Dome Psyker with you slows everything down more and let the team aproach it more tactical - sometimes.
But Dome + Surge has maybe the same problem like speed, it trivializes a lot of encounters.
To find a sweetspot and to please as many players as possible i think they are more or less in the right spot or at least close to it.
The Problem that you may have i have too but coming from the opposite site.
You want everyone run and play faster and i want everyone to calm down a little and play more tactical and a little slower.
The essence of this is, building a good team and act as a team - find the compromise is key for a good and fun experience.
