People have been talking about how popular the pistols are, and I was thinking of seeing if I could get an actual sharp shooter build to work…
And I noticed that ALL the vet melee weapons, with the exception of the knife, are slow movers.
Sure the Powersword is bitched about because of its low mobility,
but for pure running, you don’t go any faster with a chainsword,
Powersword 0.26 at 79
Chainsword 0.26 at 79.
The sacred shovel which required the nerf of all other weapons in the game so it might stay viable is, you guess it, 0.27 at 80.
Tactical axe is moderately slow, 0.27 at 80 mob.
Catachan swords are the same, 0.22 at 74 mob.
Knife is mad fast, 0.89 at 80 mob.
Now, on the ranged side, it’s not as bad but it’s close. I have a
Columnus with +0.57, an
MG IV at 049,
Kant XII with 79 mob is 0.26
which drops you down to the same speed as most of available melees.
A plasma gun is going to take it the other way, -0.25 ish, and helbores are unlisted.
las pistol is as fast as a knife, at 0.89, (80 mob)
Revolver is still over average at 0.59 (80 mob.)
So, if you want to go fast as a vet, you have to take either a knife or a pistol. If you take both a fullsword and a not-tiny ranged, you’re going to be going from somewhere from 0.25 to negative 0.25.
Let’s move to Psyker, we’ll just do class weapons.
Force staff (any.) -0.20. (note the negative.) Thats on line with the plasma gun.
Force Sword (any) 0.27 at 80 mob. 0.09 at 60 mob.
Dualing sword 0.89 at 80 mob, so same as a knife.
Now, for the devs. THIS IS A PROBLEM.
Suppose you are a psyker, and you even bring a knife, and stop to open a crate hoping for some health, or stimms, or even some plasteel… (Plasteel being the game’s main bottleneck) And you look up and see the three zealots you dropped with… or their outlines… Well, it might look a little like this:
Imagine if the psyker had a force sword! The distance might be so great that you couldn’t even make out the dots.
(Yes, sprint related perks are on curios, not the point. The above is with them maxed out, and the locks get in the way of that anyway. )
AND to add insult to injury, the spawns are going to slow down the lone psyker even more. Quite a lot since he might have to deal with quite a lot by himself.
Now, let’s talk about plasteel, AKA the main reason to hunt around.
Plasteel is our main bottleneck in the game. IT’s freaking awful.
Now, you are aware all players hate your crafting system, and you still haven’t fixed it. The largest thread on the offical forums is the documentation of all the people complaining about this awful system you refuse to fix.
Let’s actually examine the plasteel bottleneck.
Average numbers for upgrading a weapon (over 360 base) are as follows.
Grey to Green 150 Plasteel.
Green to blue, 200
Blue to Purple 400p/125d
Purple to Orange 700/300
Rebless/refine 100/80 199/100
For a curio, the numbers are
Green to blue 160
310/99
530/230
Refine 144/72
So, what is the rate of plasteel acquisition? It might surprise you to learn it’s about 10P a minute, or 200p in a 20 minute run on medium. On Heresy it can jump a fair amount into the 350s, and more on damnation, but we need a number, so on malice an average run for average players is 20 minutes with a haul of 200-250 plasteel, and the people doing auric maelstrom damnation aren’t the people hurt the worse by this system.
So, to get one build set up, a player needs to first get a decent melee/ranged pair from RNG to start with, it may cost them 1450 plasteel to get it to orange, (IF it gets to orange,)
Double that for both weapons, and we’re at close to 3000. Now change two things, and we might well be at 3400 plasteel.
Add in the trinkets, the trinkets are 1k plasteel each before reroll and 1300 after.
So, our single build, if everything goes right, is 7,400 plasteel, or 123 hours of malice gameplay.
And who wants just one weapon for each slot, or runs only one toon?
If a player runs four toons that’s 500 hours to get one build on each, 620 if they run five.
This is WITHOUT fails and WITHOUT blessing hunts.
To get a blessing of a decent level, we need to run a weapon from green to blue, or sometimes higher. Some blessings seem to not appear at blue, though it’s hard to be sure. Some more specific builds get bricked at any step in the 1450 plasteel process, a process that requires 7.25 hours of plasteel gathering for an average player running malice JUST TO ROLL THE DICE.
The damnation players ARE making more, but even with their higher income there’s a lot of time going in to plasteel hunting.
7 hours just to roll the dice on a super rare blessing.
But, maybe you roll only to blue? That’s maybe one roll of the dice every 20-40 minutes, depending if you started at grey or green.
Remember, we have over 40 weapon types, with about 9 blessings a type. That’s 360 blessings to get just level 3 available for building on all types. At a guess I would imagine that a player will find they want to try
Force Sword
Force Staffx3
autogun
Lasgun
recon lasgun
Knife
Revolver
Ripper
Cleaver
Ogryn club
Shovel
Powersword
Chainsword
Evis
Thunderhammer
(No reason to stop there except have to somewhere)
And to start experimenting that’s over 130 blessings just to finish level 3. That’s 130 rolls of the dice at 20 minutes minimum to roll them. That’s 42 hours right there, IF you get a new blessing every time, which you most certainly do not.
That is hundreds of hours just farming blessings. Hundreds of hours to ATTEMPT a build. Hundreds of hours to come up with the parts for a build, and hundreds of hours WASTED.
Just to set up one build
500 hours.
To set up blessings for a handful of iconic weapons, with PERFECT LUCK and only rolling blue,
50 hours.
Rolling blue AND orange? 900 hours. (Again, with PERFECT luck.)
As things are now? Too much work to be disappointed again and again by the results of the system.
Many have left. Of those who remain, a ton of players aren’t even picking up plasteel that’s right in front of them. They don’t care anymore. They come in, play a bit, leave. That’s not the engagement you want. That’s not the level your game could be if you embraced the community of gamers and freedom.
(Seriously, some even suspect Fat Shark made crafting horrible on purpose to make people not want it so as to have an excuse to get rid of it. ‘wasn’t being used. can’t think why. We took it out completely.’)
Now, what you should do about it. First, do NOT nerf anything. Nerfs are bad.
But…
- EVERYONE in the game needs to run faster. EVERYONE. It’s bad thinking that anyone doesn’t need to run fast.
- You can mostly keep the same dodges, just separate run speed from weapon mobility entirely.
- DO NOT NERF ZEALOT. NOT NOT NOT.
- EVERYONE in the game needs to run faster. EVERYONE. It’s bad thinking that anyone doesn’t need to run fast.
- Allow insane speed runners separate lobbies. They don’t’ want to run with us, we don’t want to run with them, everyone is happy.
- Get rid of the locks so we can build sprint trinkets.
- Read the list again.
- Make it so chests are already open so you don’t waste time going to look, make them open when a player gets close so it doesn’t slow them down or the next player can snag whatever is in it, and for the LOVE OF THE EMPORER… Speed up chest interaction by 75%.
- Increase plasteel drop rate.
10 increase plasteel spawn rate. - make all plasteel glow bright orange and have it auto collect when you get withen 10 meters, even without opening a chest.
- Make all plasteel drops large and make all large drops worth 250 plasteel.
- Make all monsters and bosses drop 1k plasteel and 10k ordo dockets.
- Make everyone go faster so we can pick up the plasteel.
- Do not nerf zealot, buff everyone else.
- When a character is moderately behind the main body, give them a double speed /stamina no consume buff when moving in the direction of the party and make it kick in after 2 second of constant movement. I know you have the tech because there’s a similar perk in the vet tree.
- Do not nerf zealot.
- Reduce crafting cost.
- no locks.
- get rid of the locks.
- Let us refund our materials are downgrade an item to try again. Even if it’s only 75% of spend materials it would be a help as 380s with good distribution are rare.
- Let us ‘order’ a weapon like from brunt, but in green. We say what we want, and when the store rolls over they have ‘brought out the selection’ and everything in the store is a purgatus staff or tigris xv and we can pick one(s) with the distribution we want.
- Increase plasteel drops.
- Make us go faster.
- Make chests less painful to deal with.
- Make sprinting MUCH more efficient and also FASTER when one has not attacked or been attacked for 3 seconds, to allow better use of time between fights. DRG has a perk like this, run for 2 seconds and you go much faster.
EDIT TO ADD:
26. Short term, give us knife speed or greaterwhen we have blitz selected, and allow it to be selected when empty. (No grenades just means empty hands but fast speed.)
27. Make all swords and basic ranged a minimum of +0.65 from their current average of 0.25. That’s not as fast a a knife, but it’s fast enough not to feel slow, which they kind of do now. Force Staves should get a massive increase from their current negative to at least as fast as an autogun.
(You might note some repetition in there.)
Comon Fat Shark, I know Vermintide had us moving slow, but attention spans are less these days. Let ALL CLASSES GO FAST.
