Mobility

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I have been putting a lot of thought into this: combat knives and dueling swords are great for the really really high end of the skill curve. They get lots of youtube views because of the mobility and stunts they enable. They’re fun to use, they feel good to use, and they put in the work.

But the mobility they offer is almost too good, it’s so good that it kinda ruins the game for everyone else on the team. Now, I’m not saying nerf them, but I am saying we need more mobility options. That my zealot with knife can yet themselves three rooms across the map, crossing every spawn gate, triggering all the ambushes, hordes, and specials on the three teammates I just abandoned with no hope of them ever catching up is more than a little broken. They’re just gonna get bogged down by all the spawns I triggered. I’ve even figured out how one could grief teams, theoretically because I am unwilling to test this on public lobbies, by just rushing ahead with dodge slides and intentionally hitting all of the spawn gates I know along the way.

A chain weapon with rev it up can keep up with knives and dueling swords (can I call em foils for brevity?) relatively well, and with less work, but eats a blessing slot… so why not just make that a mechanic of chain weapons? Why not give shieldgryns a little bit of a speed buff while swinging light attacks or something? These are just a couple ideas, nothing concrete, but I would like to say that, generally speaking, melee weapons across the board need some sort of mobility mechanics to at least be able to keep up with people who wanna go really fast.

Ogryns especially get the short end of the stick here, along with a small subset of psyker builds. Whenever one of my friends play ogryn, it very quickly turns into a game of keeping the hounds, trappers, and mutants off the ogryn’s back while escorting them to where a zealot is engaging enemies some room or two ahead.

It’s… kinda not fun to be forced into that gameplay loop because one person wanted to go fast and the other simply cant.

All that being said, if a player is rushing ahead that much, they’re kinda the arse. I see it as everyone’s responsibility to keep the team together, or at least working together.

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Almost? I can already imagine the rage and tantrums if the silly move tech on those (especially knives) have been removed. “High skill curve” :wink:

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Yeah, the old “run faster on heavy-cancel” move should go. Surely no-one is supporting that being in still.

Reminds me of this sketch (which I still find funny, tbh!)

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Did you try also to take all movement nodes and put a weapon with 80% mobility?

I think a lot of players wants mobility without taking the right talents… and try to take weapon with low mobility just to get all other stats at max.

Don’t know if it has to go.

Perso, I think that movement is well done in this game.
The problem is not that… this is players. They don’t wait each others etc.
I have just did the penance with no member that go down in a maelstrom mission. It was easy. We have worked as a team… I know that it could seem strange, but it was so rare that I had to say it.
So we waited each others, we helped each others (as we were all in coherency, it is easy)… and I was a zealot with Achlys CA with move bonuses (not all).
What I usually see is people that don’t wait other, don’t pay attention to others.
In other words, teammates get downed cause 2 guys are at 40 meters in front while others are behind them. But the 2 won’t stop…

EDIT: correction of the build I sed to complete the penance ;P.

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It’s a PVE game! I SHOULD be able to delete every enemy on the map at the push of a button.

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I’m not saying it isn’t, I enjoy certain mobility builds myself, but some of the weapon move tech allows you to disengage and escape enemies with no real risk or limitations. There is a reason why weapons with very high mobility and move tech are used so often in duos and solo runs.

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Move tech on weapons, I agree it is too much.
Chainsword / Evis / knives are the ones I think about.
But for Evis/Chainsword, it comes from a blessing. If you remove that, these blessings have no purpose.

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@Jonboy @Ralendil did you even read my post, or the first few sentences?

I explicitly stated I DIDNT want the mobility tech removed from the knife and dueling sword. I just brought up the point that it’s so good that it can ruin the experience for anyone running different weapons, and thus would like to see more mobility options added to more melees so there’s more variety and players aren’t just screwed over because one player took a knife. I suggested making rev it up built in to chain weapons without the blessing because that seems like the easiest mobility buff there. As for other weapons, I don’t know, the worst offenders to me seem like the Force Swords and Shield n Club, so maybe for the thrusting heavies players move 15% faster for the duration of the charge up and animation? That would at least allow players to catch up to someone running a knife if the knife wielder stops to loot or stab a poxwalker.

Edit: forgot to @JanZamoysky for bringing up nerfing knife when I said I didnt want a nerf

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Yes I have, and that’s what happen when a discussion starts.

However, the movement for these weapons have been discussed, so I answered that.
About that, and I think it has a direct link to your topic, I think that the heavy hit acceleration of the dagger is not something that should be left untouched, cause it is a too strong movement bonus. For evis / chainsword, I consider this is normal cause linked to a blessing.
DS / Dagger have higher movement stats. However, I would not agree that other weapons would see their speed increased.
In fact, a lot of players focus on the zealot shroudfield with dagger… but as I said several times, shroudfield is spammable cause there are 2 CDR nodes (and this ability is also a little too strong).

And my opinion is still that the high mobility on these weapons is not wrong. Increasing the mobility of other melee weapons would be a nerf of the utility of these weapons and also would go in the wrong direction.

So reread my first post.

How many here take weapons with 80% mobility? how many take the veteran aura that gives you +5% mobility?

Here I would point the common denominator when such situations happen. Players.
A lot of players don’t understand what is playing as a team and complain every time that someone is not close to them… cause of course the others should look at them (but the contrary, who care?).
This is what I usually see. This is not all players. There are skilled players, there are also lot of players that play as a team (special thank to Ogryns that use to be the players that take care of others). But, when you meet selfish players or rushers, this is so annoying…
And nerfing, even indirectly by buffing movement of other weapons, is not a solution.

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Edited: a misunderstanding

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mobility but perhaps also dodge distance and dodge counts should be tweaked for some weapons that are overperforming, like DS and Knife i guess.

in vt2 could rush as well but not to the levels of DT, everyone was on par and promoted cooperation in staying near each other, also because more harder the game and everyone was slow in almost equal manner.

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Why? Game wasn’t designed initialy for such high movespeed they buffed it later. Enemies are slow, you can rush through the places it could be hard to fight either way - see that narrow bridge? Skip it!

It’s not a racing game, movement and mobility shouldn’t come through the brainless heavy or slide spam but longer/faster/more dodges, earning and managing some stacks first, etc. There is no skill involved in button mashing and utilizing mechanics that consumes 0 resources.

It was completely fine on release, i don’t remember mass complains about characters are too slow.

IMO - add parry for every agility archetype of weapon so you will be cool and swift. Dueling sword can’t parry is weird.

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Sprint is cool for fighting ranged enemies but honestly just breaks the game for melee. Being able to just sprint away from every melee enemy is pretty nuts

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Yes. Yes. Yesyesyes.

I mean… if you start in melee range, with most classes in the game (y’know, apart from Zealot) it becomes difficult to outrun a mob since they tend to lock on and lunge regardless of your slides and mostly keep pace unless you’re running a weapon with high mobility and have the stamina to keep the sprint pace going… literally safer and more effective to clear the stragglers instead of running.

Outrunning mobs should be the most effective way to deal with melee chaff enemies when they’re far enough out, the first choice should not be “look, there’s hundreds, CHARGE INTO THEM” when you’re a basic-ass frail human.

But melee in Tide games is a whole different ballgame and it mostly enables you to be able to engage without too much trouble if you know what you’re doing so… I get wanting to engage (it’s FUN!).

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Yeah I’m not sure I’d enjoy it if it was nerfed. Maybe enemies should be able to clothesline you or something

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That… might actually just be fun. Mobs already sort of “hold” you in place when there’s a good number, if they made it so that a group could jump at you and slow you down that’d be interesting.

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Weapons making you run faster is ridiculous in the first place. I understand it would affect dodge distance and speed realistically, but a knife making you run literally 2x faster than a short sword?!

Ogryn moving half speed because he’s holding a mace vs a knife?! The guy can lift a tank, but the extra 2 lbs in his hand is a deal breaker huh?

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maybe they should rework the heavies on knife reducing the massive speed boost you can get when doing heavies while sprinting.
it is also a bit boring to see people using knife at the start and doing heavies just to go faster.
it’s cringe

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Definitely don’t disagree.

The movement tech I appreciate having. Is it dumb? Yes. But the game is set up like that.

Though, having a weight system would be interesting… running around with a Bolter and a power sword? Slower than running around with a power sword and a pistol.

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They do actually hide around corners and will pop out and hit you if you aren’t dodge sliding. I see groaners and scab gunners doing that a LOT.