Normalize movement

[Xulld]

Quick play offers a diverse experience that sometimes turns into some players running ahead and those that take weapons with less speed on builds that do not offer extra movement, to struggle to keep up.

I see frequent complaints of players across various platforms on this topic. I love the fact the weapons offer different movement speeds, dodge distance, sprint efficiency, etc.

However I think just like Critical hit % chance is capped, we could also use a movement cap. Classes/builds that already have lots of movement then take the combat blade or other fast weapon types and are essentially able to out pace the entire team leaving everyone behind.

A way to mitigate this is to take sprint efficiency and stam regen on curios and take movement talents if you have them, but this is only a small difference that does not solve the problem.

I suggest capping total movement speed and creating a new perk for curious that increases movement. This makes it so we do not need to nerf any of the weapons and each one can remain special, but would remove the incentive to stack movement on classes/builds, that already have it in spades.

This would do nothing more than what vets and psykers do when considering crit%, as you reach the cap you would simply take other options.

[oleanus]

there is already a movement speed cap but only psyker can reach it consistently

[PSI2007]

01001101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 01100011 01101111 01101101 01101001 01101110 01100111
… … … … … …

Hard NO to this idea.

The problem isn’t the movement speed, it’s rushers.

With your suggestion you would essentially shoot people in the foot,
who’s build & class relies on high mobility.

… … … … … …

The better way would be to implement a punishing system,
which activates when someone is too far away from their (living) team for too long.

There already is a system like that, but it can either be circumvented to a degree with “Loner” and it’s also not that threatening.
EDIT: People informed me that this is not correct. “Loner” does NOT circumvent this system, which is interesting, because it kills all arguements against it.

I think of some kind of stalker, that exclusively hunts people activly rushing away from their team.

Of course this would mean that the conditions for what counts as a anti-team playing rusher would need to be defined very well and implimented correctly.

However, this would have the risk of being horrible buggy and maybe make the entire situation actually worse.

… … … … … …

I think we are in a good position right now.
Sure, some people are
anti-team playing rushing " "-heads,
but most people aren’t and we shouldn’t punish the majority for the failure of a minority.

… … … … … …

Improvisation is rarely to be welcomed,
and then only when the Omnissiah’s will demands it.

01000101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01000011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01110101 01101110 01101001 01100011 01100001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110

… … … … … …

End of Communication
The Emperor protects!

[MixedLetters]

I feel it would need to be HEAVILY defined for sure.

Not entirely against the idea, but a poor implementation could be disastrous. I only say this due to the existing system already being quite annoying in certain circumstances, that being the fact that ‘in-between waves’ you get punished for splitting up and trying to scavenge.

It isn’t the most often thing in the world, but one of the most aggravating things that hits me in this game at this point, is when I do pick a high mobility build, and we come into one of the many forks in the level. I, being high mobility, take the path my team is not, to grab resources and not tax ammo should I happen to need it, or point it out if people want to walk over to me for it. Then a trapper/dog spawns, I miss time a dodge or don’t have stamina for a push or what have you, and now I have to watch my team do the walk/run of shame for me while I sit on the ground cursing repeatedly for DARING to try and use my mobility for something beneficial to the team.

I’m often the one finding all the med packs/ammo crates doing this also, so it feels extra annoying that this system punishes me for this. And to have a ‘super unit’ piggy back off this system and literally make it impossible to do just sounds incredibly annoying, not really fun.

Now, if ‘X many meters AHEAD of the squad’ in a level spawns a ‘headhunter’ or what have you that basically nopes them out of existence unless they turn around, that would be good. But I’m talking TILES AHEAD of the team, not ‘in the next tile over trying to just be a loot goblin in an adjacent path.’ (maybe if a single character would start the next horde/ambush and they are X meters out of coherency, like whatever ‘a lot’ is, it instead spawns said headhunter unit that immediately tries to capture and kill them to pylon. But it will go away if they enter coherency again).

[XeroShinobi]

@PSI2007

There already is a system like that, but it can either be circumvented to a degree with “Loner” and it’s also not that threatening.

It can be circumvented by any even remotely decent player regardless of skill tree choices.

If there is going to be a movement speed delta in Darktide, it needs to be reduced. There is too much of a gap between fast and slow movement weapons. Normalizing it would be best, but I would accept a small delta. Slow weapons need to be sped up a bit.

[PSI2007]

Agreed on the first part. IMO “Loner” isn’t a problem either.

Regarding your second point.
They could nerf the mobility on some weapons, but the shouldn’t hard cap mobility over all.

I still think that the problem is bad teamplay.

[Flawless]

@PSI2007

The problem isn’t the movement speed, it’s rushers.

When you can just walk away from the enemies, without having to care about them, i would argue that movement speed at that level is a problem.

Unless it is limited to a duration of a few seconds after activation of an ability.

[PSI2007]

I think you didn’t mean literally “walk away”.
I’ve yet to experience that even with this build:

Also, I stick to my point, that bad teamplay is the issue.

[XeroShinobi]

@PSI2007

They could nerf the mobility on some weapons, but the shouldn’t hard cap mobility over all.

Nothing in this game feels objectively fast, just relatively fast compared to other weapons and enemies. I wouldn’t want to see any weapon slowed down, everything else needs to speed up to, if not match the knife, have the gap between itself and the knife significantly reduced.

[PSI2007]

Personaly I got ZERO issues with mobility on any class or playing with another clkass that is faster then mine, weapons of all types included.

I only meant that IF some weapons were considered “too rushy”, those COULD be nerfed.

But I’m in agreement with you.

[XeroShinobi]

I personally find slow movement speed weapons to be agonizingly slow. I can and do play with them sometimes for variety’s sake.

Darktide could use a universal speed increase to more closely match the knife. This would include enemy movement speed as well. The only movement nerf I would make is perhaps slowing the heavy attack acceleration on the knife a bit so it’s less of a massive jump over the knife’s normal sprint speed.

@Flawless

When you can just walk away from the enemies, without having to care about them, i would argue that movement speed at that level is a problem.

The problem is that enemies are both too slow and too easy to kite.

[oleanus]

Boss walls would instantly fix players going too fast

[XeroShinobi]

It would only mitigate the issue unless bosses get a big health buff. The knife and dueling sword can kill bosses very fast on zealot.

[CobaltNinja]

@PSI2007

I still think that the problem is bad teamplay.

This is ultimately the problem. The only bad things I’ve heard about rushers in Left 4 Dead and even VT2 is that they usually aren’t good enough to do it and end up dying, which hurts the whole team.

Problem here is that DT is very generous with letting you go off and do your own thing. True Solo just isn’t as impressive when you can push a dog out of the air while barely even looking at it and dodge literally everything.

Darktide needs to smite people who are too fast or too slow, but even a decent player can stay separated for a long period of time without any real penalty. It’s more like it’s asking nicely for you to group back up with your team.

[DornIvanotic]

Loner doesn’t prevent rush prevention

[stqnislqs]

What about vertical movements? Can we have a class that leaps? Climbs? Flies?

[CobaltNinja]

It nullifies part of it - one of the checks that spawns extra disablers is for coherency. Distance is still taken into account, though Loner still makes it not as severe.

[DornIvanotic]

Loner is not coherency itself, it is exclusively coherency regeneration. It doesn’t apply to the mechanic of coherency or rush prevention. It’s simply not in the code. Been a myth for too long

[DornIvanotic]

scripts/managers/pacing/specials_pacing/specials_pacing.lua

[DornIvanotic]

zealot_always_at_least_one_coherency is loner, what it does is provide an override to the buff of coherency regen. It is not called elsewhere.