People leaving games

[LethargicSaga]

@Torimori

you always need to consider the fact you can’t make people stay in matches they don’t want to be in

Of course. A penalty system filters out repeated leavers.

@Torimori

The most obvious consequence is that you’ll just get less people to join games, as they will keep leaving matches they hate, and will just get suspended

Good. Why would you want to play with rage quitters in the first place?

@Torimori

they still would be playing at least some matches, just not yours. Excluding them would mean they also won’t be able to join those other matches they would actually play to the end.

Exactly. Punish the leavers and prevent them from ruining the game for other people.

@Torimori

But then, you also will see people not exactly leaving, but doing all they can to be kicked out,

I have seen this argument before too, which has already been debunked; a penalty system can effect those who have been kicked from a game.

@Torimori

And if ALL those people will just keep leaving your games even with JIP working as expected… Well, I don’t want to point fingers at the real issue here

This is not only a snarky comment, but is also the opposite of reality.

Typically, the poorly behaved players are the ones who rage quit, for two reasons:

1. They join a game expecting to win, and find disappointment when they lose
2. They immediately run off, get themselves killed, and speedrun their way to the quit option

And to comment on the first reason, expecting to win is a very chidlish mindset. As an adult I have the mental capabilities to understand a game is not to “win” but to be enjoyed. Winning is just a preference, but I will still enjoy the game regardless.

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Now, this is going to be my last post here because I’m seeing all the same arguments all over again which have already been debunked multiple times, and it’s quite tiring to keep repeating the same simple solutions.

So, to finish I’m going to paste a reply from my thread where a user made lots of counter-arguments in which a penalty system would immediately resolve, or where additional tweaks would resolve any actual issues that would arise. It is based on Vermintide II but I believe most of it applies to many games including Darktide.

I’ve placed it under a dropdown as it is a bit long and don’t want to spam up peoples screens:

Quote from my thread

@LethargicSaga

@Pawelpl55

Why would you want that type of person to stay in your game? Them leaving means a chance for someone better to join.

The point is to give those players a timout which prevents that type of person from joining in the first place, as they will be filtered out by the system rather quickly.

@Pawelpl55

Additionally, there are many good reasons to leave the game:

• I can’t be bothered to play a snoozefest that is having Lingering Flames BW (Flamestorm in particular) on the team
• Sometimes I don’t feel like playing Skittergate for the n-th time
• Maybe I don’t want to play a WS with LB in a lobby where everyone is running ranged careers with special/elite sniping weapons
• I don’t like playing Twitch with positive boons active
• I see someone from my friends list start the game, and I’d rather play with them
• Maybe the team progresses through the map at a pace I don’t like, e.g. I’ve had two players in CW rush through the map, and wouldn’t wait at any point or even try to help if someone was getting surrounded - they are free to have such pace but I don’t want to be a part of that. Sometimes I’ve had people progress super slowly through the maps, and while I don’t mind them doing that, I can’t be bothered to stay in such a lobby either
• Or maybe there is something else that I simply don’t like in the lobby and want to leave

Not liking a specific map like Skittergate is not a “good reason” to leave the game. Neither is playing with all ranged careers, or having a friend come online, or anything else you mentioned. Those are just poor excuses to validate yourself and put yourself in a better spotlight when in reality it is just poor behaviour. You should play the game until it is over, or don’t start one until you are ready to.

The only good points you bought up here was Twitch mode and rushers. That is something I had not thought about. I think the solution for both Twitch mode and deeds is to have the penalty system automatically be disabled, with a possible notice about this on the screen when selecting those game modes. Twitch mode and deeds does not support matchmaking anyway.

As for rushers, that is another problem I have with the game. It is rare but I have ecountered players that go on far ahead leaving me, their IronBreaker tank, to be constantly overwhelmed and killed by specials. It made me feel really excluded, like I wasn’t part of the team. I’ve had to leave as a host of Chaos Wastes because of this, which I usually don’t like to do. However, from my experience its rare to come across players like this, so leaving a match should not impact your timeout if you otherwise don’t often leave. This is because the timeout system would increment due to repeated leaving, not from a single leave.

On the other hand, slow players who intentionally stay behind and don’t even try to keep up will filter themselves out by constantly dying and leaving. I’m also often the first one to keep an eye out for other players, handing over medical supplies even if I need them more, and also make sure to backup players that may have fallen behind. I think it’s just about balancing yourself as a good team player while also being aware when people may not be making an effort and possibly trolling.

@Pawelpl55

There are also plenty of other questions about such a system.
What about cases where I have a wrong talent/item equipped or I want to change career/build, since it overlaps too much with others, so I quickly leave, change equipment and want to rejoin?

You should make sure to prepare before you start a game. That’s just tough luck.

@Pawelpl55

What if I get a short Wi-Fi blackout?
This question is particularly important. If that wouldn’t result in a penalty, then people could just leave the game anyway by temporarily turning off the Wi-Fi connection on their computer, and we’d be back to square one.

I kind of mentioned this in my original post.

Such a penalty system affects players who repeatedly leave. This would work by incrementing the timout after each subsequent leave.

That one time your internet drops should not cause you any timeout issues if you are not a constant leaver. On the other hand, if people are switching off their Wi-Fi to try and leave, they will be increasing their timeout. So it would not work.

Dead by Daylight is a game which implements such a penalty system and it works really well.

@Pawelpl55

Also, what about toxic players?
Imagine you get downed and they don’t rescue you just because, and now you can’t even leave, or you get a penalty.
What if they constantly FF you?

I’ve never really found many team killers in this game. I have over 500 hours and maybe come across three or four who tried and all failed.

Since these kinds of players are rare, you’d probably be able to leave without much of a punishment. Like I said before, the penalty system would increment on repeated leaving. You’d probably be fine.

If you are unlucky and keep joining lobbies like this, it would probably just be better to become a host. This is the main reason I primarily host in many games. I like that I can ensure everyone is being nice and not verbally attacking others, or team killing, etc. I don’t really tolerate it.

@Pawelpl55

Additionally, players who want to leave for whatever reason may have an incentive to sabotage the game just so that they don’t have to play it out in full or so that you kick them.

I’ve thought about this too, but the vote kick system can also add to their timeout. That mitigates this issue quickly.

@Pawelpl55

The way I see it, a penalty system for people leaving games is a bad and unnecessary concept, since Vermintide is not a competitive game and it’d incentivise many bad behaviours, and create other problems that would need extra systems to correct for.

I disagree. I don’t think it would incentivise any bad behaviours. You mentioned the sabotage they might attempt but I already addressed that issue. Is there any other bad behaviours you could point out? I can’t think of any.

I actually think it is the opposite. The fact that there is not any penalty system in place means that the game is open to abuse. For example:

• Players might join with the intention to sabotage the game knowing there is no consequences
• Players might join hoping for a session nearly over, so that they can claim easy rewards. This is known as ‘reward fishing’
• Players might leave on their first death, or if an objective is not dealt with fast enough, even though the game is still going ok.
• Players might leave because everyone is dead apart from one person. That one person may actually been in a situation where they could revive everyone and keep the game going. This has actually been me, and I’ve had a full party leave me with bots because they was not patient. I had to start over.
• Players may leave and rejoin to abuse the death system to keep a game going with a bot that takes their place. This may be with good intentions but it is still a kind of exploit.
• Low level players can join higher difficulties expecting other players to carry them. This is ok if agreed upon, but often times their presence puts everyone else at a disadvantage. A vote kick that contributes to their timeout should act as a deterrent against this.
• Some players may join and go AFK in hopes that their team will finish the level and bring them easy rewards. A vote kick that contributes to a timeout would filter these players out quickly.
• Players can engage in other various toxic behaviour knowing that there are no consequences for their actions.

Probably a lot more issues that others can point out too.

@Pawelpl55

The only penalty system that could be created is in Versus Mode for hosts who shut down the lobby when they are losing. Even then, it isn’t necessary, and it’d be fine if the game could transfer host or some other solution. Although, interest in versus seems to have dropped significantly so sort of who cares.

This is even more of a reason to add a penalty system. Quitting because of such a childish mentality when it comes to losing ruins it for everyone else. The winning team may be transfered to another game where they are now losing. It is awful.

@Pawelpl55

so sort of who cares.

Loads of people care. I took around these forums after I made this post and realised many other players have requested a penalty system. There’s probably a lot of other people who find leavers to be a big problem who are just not very vocal about it as well.

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There is a lot of other comments where counter-arguments were easily dispelled. I would recommend reading if you are struggling to understand why a penalty system would benefit the game and its players.

Penalty for leavers suggestion

There should be a penalty system for leavers. Too many players join, run off and die, and speedrun their way to the quit option. It can be fustrating for me and other players when the bots may not be sufficient for specific gamemodes, like weeklies for example. A timer that prevents leavers from rejoining matches would work fine. Subsequent quitting would increase the timer by a set multiplier, but would wear down after a while of not quitting. Dead by Daylight uses a similar system to stop p…