I firmly disagree about this
Power cycler is so rare that it should not add only one swing.
I said it, 1 swing energized as base seems a little harsh. But adding one to the base and reducing one for power cycler is just making power cycler, that several have hunted for month, totally bad.
It is not… you can still use it for everything from the beginning to the end of the mission and there’s no situation where you HAVE TO switch to a melee.
It needs an other nerf and that ammo reserve reversed to what it was before the patch.
I did not (20 hours, does it count? I guess no).
I said it several times, there’s should be a hot mechanism to force people that don’t understand that the flamer should never be your main weapon to, sometimes, use their melee weapon.
We still have zealot that don’t know they have a melee weapon and that grab any ammo they can find.
You can stop pining my name here or in any other tread. I no longer care for this circus clown show that tries to pretend it would be WH40K. I have watched most of the discussions over the last months.
And you my friend are one of the most hypocrite persons here when it comes to discussions on the field of the Veteran class. You advocate for this and that on said class, just to reveal weeks later, that YOU have not even scratched on the surface of said class. And that is not you alone. So many here think they know much about this and that, just because you guys spend some time in the meat grinder and or comparing 40K stuff to Vermintide.
This game will lose more and more players. Not because the base of the game is bad. No. Because the true WH40K fans can clearly see what FS does to its lore. And these people where the key marketing audience FS was aiming for. Because this part of the audience is the part with the MONEY in their wallets, willing to spend it on stuff that is 40K related.
Here are some final Points for you and others to think about:
Stop the argumentation, that the PS would have some how taking away the ‘‘Jobs’’ of other classes.
Ogryns with high capacity twin linked stubber can ‘‘steal’’ your melee mobs even faster.
Stop mixing the flamer nerf that was not ‘‘that hard’’ into discussions about the PS nerf, whenever you need an argument to back up the decision to make the PS handling uncomfortable as hell.
Stop telling anyone that a Veteran with a Power Sword would negatively affect your play fun as a Zealot, when at the same time there is a class running around with a lightning staff, that can stunlock and kill every single enemy typ solo, that is not a poxwalker or a monstrosity.
PS was totally OK. It did what a PS does lorewise. All they had to do, was to make Evis do it the same way and just have it generate bleed while doing it.
Flamer canister size Nerf hits everyone else harder then the one with the flamer, because now that thing eats up ammo pickups even more.
And the burn dmg nerf hit the Psyker more than the Flamer, because now the Psykers are forced into certain builds.
And one day they will bring it in. The 2 handed Energy Sword. And oh boy do i hope that it will get the same clunky and unpleasant activation mechanic. So that you jealous zealots can sit in the pit you had dig for the veterans.
And now go on and have fun with your Vermintide 2.1 that wears the dead skin of 40K like a Necron Flayer. Have fun with its Metin 2 style crafting system. And go on chasing for dopamine wile you sit there and hope that this time it has to be a good crafting result(it will not).
And this as a bonus for you personal chabar84, just so you know that i know dam well how to use any kind of weapon this game had to offer. Because i had more than enough time to play them ALL.
Woah, a Metin 2 shout out. It’s not just me that feels that the crafting and itemisation took way more cues from Korean MMOs than is healthy for any kind of game that isn’t actually a Korean MMO.
Woah, calm your red main Magnus. I understand, I really do, but we have to keep our heads up when facing/fencing with heretics.
You are right when it comes to the lore. I’m right now wholeheartedly convinced that likes of StanisławZamoyski or Life_Devil, are “allegedly” either corp-infiltrators tasked chip away as much of company value of Fatshark as possible (another buyout maybe?) OR “allegedly” ex-employees trying to tank Darktide in some form of vengeance OR diehard fans of Vermintide / Warhammer FRP, whose idea of 40k Lore ends on “Warhammer FPR in SPHASE”.
There are also couple of Reasonable Daemonettes working on the side-lines, but there is no Ordo to take care of that and we have to live with it.
I imagine it will happen when they finally introduce the ‘red’ weapon tier. Blessings max out at purple atm too, so I guess there should also be higher tier blessings as some point to go along with it.
PC totally bad if it increased your powersings from 2 to 3? My man, 4 (heavies) was the max pre nerf without PC and with it, it was 4 lights instead of heavies.
By putting so much power into PC while the itemisation is the way it is, is more toxic than it is anything else.
As the very next comment to yours points out, a 50% increase is huge and it being at 200% well… it basically makes it a must have. BM sorta compensates against hordes but not against more dangerous targets.
I also love the concern for those that DO have it. As if you’d be any less happy to find the still best blessing for PS. If you changed the base swings to 2 and make PC add 1, what exactly changes for those that have PC exactly? They still have a PS with 3 swings no matter which way you change the base + extra amounts! They lose nothing.
When it comes to the flamer: If you compare it to how it was in VT2, not a single point of armor damage if you continuesly fired it and a miniscule amount if you just shot a single burst. It coudln’t handle armor what so ever. That wasn’t great already. Then on top of that it only killed hordes which the rest of the team needed to gain their THP and killing hordes wasn’t an issue. So it was only detrimental to the team. In DT even if it didn’t do anything to armor, it wouldn’t face the problem of being a detriment to the team since killing hordes isn’t exactly stealing toughness. Letting the Ult give it AP-properties is something that doesn’t rub me the wrong way at all. Maybe the fact that you can do so every 24 to 21 seconds but that is a messy thing to change.
Another major difference from VT2: It used to have infinite ammo but would overheat after 3 full bursts + any amount more. Being overheated also slowed you down in melee and venting cost HP.
Now it has an ammo count. Personally i’d like to see the overheat & vent mechanic come back together with a higher ammo pool. It shouldn’t do too much armor damage but it can’t be none (or if it’s none it should maybe stagger them but I don’t like that idea) + the ult should give it extra AP.
The thing about it being the main weapon you use… eh whatever honestly. Everyone else uses their guns half the time and these changes would fix that too for the flamer.
Vermintide 2’s flamethrower was bad until the game’s difficulty and horde compositions + sizes got seriously tuned up to justify having that much horde clear. And you had to specifically spec into making it deal enough damage to stagger and kill elites.
DT flamer is worth 3 of V2’s Ironbreaker flamers while using a strengrh potion. Ironically, Darktide just doesn’t have strong enough enemies to justify it (well that’s my pre-nerf opinion, been playing too much Vet to try nuflamer). Like, the video of a Zealot killing 80 Crushers with a full tank of flamer is crazy and all except at no point in the game will there ever, ever, be that many elites in one place (and never with a horde or during events for some reason).
I will summarize my comments in the, too many, threads about this topic
sunder (the other T4 rarest blessing) is not really great
power cycler should stay a great blessing. After all it is rare and also you sacrifice a blessing slot for it
I think that they could increase by 1 the number of swings as a base… but with a cooldown between two activations. In fact, I think it is needed cause of what you can actually do with PC, 2 swings is ALREADY too powerful without a cooldown. Yes, you’re often interrupted and often you cannot do more than 2 swings (except if you just spam attacks)… 2 swings it is a pack of poxwalkers on floor… too powerful…
Final conclusion, I would agree to lower power cycler to a +1 bonus. But without increasing the single swing allowed as a base.
About Flamer… it was not nerfed enough. The nerf on ammo reserve is stupid and lead to toxic behavior from players that don’t know a zealot should use a melee weapon.
The fact they can continue to wipe anything has not solved anything of the problem. They have just to use more ammos (and so being more toxic for the others players)
Hi everyone, just to let you know that we’re currently looking at your feedback and monitoring how these changes are performing in game. We’ve seen and heard some of your concerns but we’d like to let the patch breathe over the Easter break before making further tweaks. That being said, we are exploring additional changes to burning DoT and the Power Swords.
We’ll keep on monitoring your feedback to decide on the best course of action, please let me know if you have played with the weapons since the patch and how you feel about them!
The problem isnt with the nerfs though, Catfish, it’s that Fatshark asks us to spend hours and hours building up a time investment to obtain things your compamy has built only to intentionally decrease the value of said investment after it’s already been made.
You guys are going to run into this sort of negative feedback every single nerf patch that hits a publicly overtuned item so long as you force players to make that kind of investment to obtain good versions of them.
Either you can’t wait at all to hit an overtuned item - which is difficult to do, considering the work on your folks’ plates and the fact that we’re all basically QA interns anyways - or you have to risk intentionally spoiling the investments you are asking of your playerbase. Every single time.
Get rid of or ameliorate the intentional pain points in the key design of your game. Please.
Yeah… I will be bashed anyways.
But when something is too powerful, you should expect a nerf.
A nerf doesn’t make a too powerful weapon a garbage weapon. It should, if they do great their job, do it an average weapon.
Actually flamer nerf has not really changed the output… this weapon is strong (too strong).
It has not changed the output of Ps with Power cycler… again too strong.
The only where it has impacted strongly is PS without PC. And here you should have seen that it was coming… (like you should see that several things need adjustments… let’s give you a tip… when something begin to be used by the majority cause they say it is the most efficient… be aware that something that can come to balance things)
You say here that you would be fine with nerfing PC to +1 without adding the lost swing to base while in a previous message you say:
So… which is it? Wouldn’t the middle ground be: 2 swings at base, PC +1, few seconds cooldown?
To put my thoughts / feedback about the new PS (nerf) here as a summary:
The new PS is not too weak as it is rn, it’s useable IF you get BM or PC.
PS would benefit from a 2nd empowered swing at base while power cycler gets lowered to provide +1 swing, this reduces the frustration of the current crafting etc. situation while keeping the power ceiling the same.
If PS was given a cooldown of a few seconds (5-8 sec) to each activation (provided it got more than 1 swing out of it at base), it would make it less of a “no-brainer” to just spam empowered swings for free and more of a choice of “I see a target that needs to die rn, I’m gonna empower and kill it”. 1 Swing is not enough to take out a mutie quickly f.e. and 2 wouldn’t either but it would help a ton.
(My) thoughts and feedback on the PS nerf ultimately don’t really matter in comparison to the overarching issues outlined in this brilliant post:
+1 to base with a delay between two activations OR
-1 to pc without a delay between 2 activations
Yeah… I tested and have got power cycler yesterday. And yes I think between 2 posts and I also read what others write…
I would say that, actually, the PS is, or boring if you don’t have PC, or too powerful with it…
But increasing by one the energized swing base is making it again too powerful… Unless you put a cooldown
Its not over yet brother, I suspect they just dumped this on us for the bank holiday weekend then abandoned the office will change it to make it slightly better when they come back, probably…
Thank you for asking - here come my personal impressions.
flamer:
I used the flamer before the patch only in dire situations and against hordes. This still functions very well as it should so in my opinion flamer nerf seems fine.
Power sword:
It now feels very inconvenient. Don’t get me wrong - it‘s not a question of strength or weakness. You still can fight and win with the powersword quite well. It’s a matter of fun. The two swings gave you a few options how to use the special - and having to press the activation button more often just isn’t fun to do. And if I wanted to mainly swing around an unpowered sword I have plenty of other options with more mobility that are simply more fun. My suggestion would be to lower the stagger of powered swings instead of removing the second swing. This will make the powersword less effective vs melee elites while retaining the more fun gameplay before the nerf. It would also give unpowered swings a specific use.
psyker:
My soulfire build is less fun then before and it never felt OP. I personally think this specific nerf was completely unwarranted.
