Patch #4 - Blessings of the Omnissiah

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Announcements
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the posts here are a bit like;

“I’ve spent 600k and got something good”,

“I’ve seen more top tier in my 30 hours since the patch than the 300 hours prior”

And I’ve seen people talking about wasting700k to a million Dockets on things.

???
This is absolutely not going to encourage anyone with less than 30 hours to get back into the game.
???

Many people’s post with hundreds of k of ordos or stupid amounts of plasteel are still advertising and reinforcing an obscene level of grind and RNG, it’s just the hardcore players here have either 600-800 hours or enough ordos to swamp the system til they get what they want, or both.

As someone who has less than 80 hours, not a lot of Ordos and cannot get what I’d like to try this system is absolutely f*cking bollocks. At best it’s confined me to lower difficulties as I try out lower tier weapons I can afford.

I’m low tier, maybe 1 or 2 transcendent weapons with blessings that belong in the toilet and I think that I can’t even have a hope of getting enough of … anything… to beat the double-down on RNG of the system.

If you’re here, with hundreds of hours and million+ dockets you’re not the target market that FS need to recover. You’re happy to flaggelate yourself into hundreds of hours to beat the horrifying RNG system.

It’s guys like me who literally cannot see a meaningful way of getting anything I want to try without sinking diabolical hours into the game that need to be won back if they want to keep their income flowing.

So erm, FS haven’t done anything new or clever - it’s just that the miniscule percentage of the players who are left have been content with utter sh!t and are happy that the RNG suits them. The fact you need a million dockets to get anywhere is f*cking idiotic.

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Nothing will convince them, not even being alone in their opinions. Seriously. Look at the profiles of the people defending this system. They average less than one like per post. They are virtually alone in their opinions, and yet speak as if everyone else is wrong and they know how things actually work.

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What?

Proving A means proving you’re obsessing over perfect items.

Well literally the second sentence of your post (quoted above) is evidence you’re obsessing over perfect items.

Well if you want to justify the obsession with perfect items, you need to show many distinct situations where that’s meaningfully different. Maybe you can, but I suspect you can’t.

  • If they’re rational, they shouldn’t care about perfect items. Especially if they have a functionally perfect item (the 370 with T4 everything you described is probably functionally perfect!)
  • if they’re irrational, they’ll hunt for a weapon that just looks more perfect but isn’t actually functionally better.
  • well that period of irrationality will probably last a while, giving them an opportunity to realize their mistake if they look up info and realize there really isn’t a meaningful improvement over their current weapon.
  • but yeah some people will remain irrational forever. That’s humanity: sometimes people are just stuck permanently with irrational beliefs, and you can’t help them even after you explain why their beliefs are irrational. (It’s why education matters so much, because these are the sort of deep-rooted attitudes you need to instill in kids while they’re young.)

Well progression systems work best when the absolute best thing requires as much playtime as the most hardcore players have. So we’re talking about it needing to take 1000+ hours for the absolute best stuff (again, knowing that with the vast majority of items you’re going to get the best stuff far quicker than that).

I mean maybe you aren’t aware of it, but if you take just the players who found Darktide fun and playable, and took just the ones interested in doing Penances, probably what you’d have found is that when they finished all available Penances (and some have), they stopped playing. That’s because for them those things were the progression system.

Well not every player is focused on that flavor of progression, but whatever flavor(s) any given player enjoys: if they run out, the game is often just done for them. That’s just how it works.

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You shouldn’t have to spend ages on a god roll.

You should be able to gently and gradually work towards the god roll build you want by playing the game.

How hard is it?

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i actually in the abstract mostly want good items in my videogame: warhammer 40k: darktide. i am almost entirely, comically ambivalent about farming likes on the forum for this video game, to be totally honest with you.

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I don’t think you’re comprehension skills are worth much of a response, but here I go:

Look at the DSM for obsession. Table 3.13, DSM-IV to DSM-5 Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder Comparison - Impact of the DSM-IV to DSM-5 Changes on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health - NCBI Bookshelf(1,cause%20marked%20anxiety%20or%20distress.

“The obsessions or compulsions are time consuming (e.g., take more than 1 hour per day) or cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.”

More than 1 hour a day and time consuming. I spend 0 time looking for 380 weapons, because I don’t look at all.

I don’t know you very well, and it’s hard to know any one person on a forum, but I would be hard pressed to call anyone “obsessive” and feel confident in that ad hominem/non-sequitur attack that you seem to do so casually.

… I just did? Let me break it down for you again.

1.) Enemy types
2.) Armour values
3.) Difficulties
4.) Classes
5.) Weapons
6.) Modifiers
7.) Perks
8.) Blessings
9.) Feats
10.) Class abilities
11.) Light melee attacks
12.) Heavy melee attacks
13.) Melee special
14.) Ranged special
15.) Melee special light
16.) Melee special heavy
17.) Charge level on weapon (plasma, helbore, etc.)
18.) Push attacks
19.) Pushes
20.) Combinations/alternating between ranged and melee
21.) Crits

You’re telling me, with all these combinations. ALL of them. With their different feat stacks and blessing stacks, that out of all these combinations you think there are 0, Z-E-R-O combinations of break points that would meaningfully affect how a weapon performs? Especially slow melee weapons, kickbacks, shotguns, revolvers, helbores, bolters, etc.? That there is absolutely positively NO way this could make the game easier or harder depending on what potential break points you could or could not hit?

Let me direct you to this if this is the case:

Delusional Disorder: Overview, Diagnosis, Epidemiology).

So you think 1000+ hours for one god roll item? Or all weapons to be unlocked as god rolled? The difference is important. I was asking for the average (meaning it could be lower or higher) for a SINGLE god rolled weapon.

Or they finished the penances and said “wow, this crafting system is impossible. I’m out”.

Again, you haven’t really answered this. If the breakpoints DON’T matter and it’s “irrational” for people to chase then WHY do you think the odds are so low? What purpose could they serve? Please, help to elucidate my obsessive mind as to this game design principle and it’s function (and if you say player retention so God Emperor help me if you don’t see the irony there).

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TBH, I find highly irritating when these people try to gaslight me into “this system is good, you are wrong to be so negative about it, you want god items, you don’t get it etc.” by telling me what I should want and implying that I don’t understand it and/or want the wrong thing.

I get the system. I don’t like it. I don’t like the logic behind it. I think it’s wrong and it is probably the main reason, but by far not the only one, why my VT hours since I first installed DT are more than triple the DT hours and this ratio will keep on increasing. The only reason why I visit here is to emphatize with others who are disappointed. It’s a bit depressing to see people trying to plead for small concessions like “but please no blessing/perk locking” so I will probably stop that soon.

I mean, again, it is fine if FS wants it like this. I just cannot enjoy it. I had hopes when they implied they would do a serious overhaul so it kept me going a bit longer, but it’s time for me to go away from here and from the toxic environment surrounding the core gameplay. I’ve already spent more time on this forum in Feb than in the DT.

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Tbh the silly goal post shift I see constantly is “the stats don’t matter in the game” and “god rolls are sacred and should only be achievable after a 1000 hour rng grind” which seems to shift rapidly during the conversation depending on what points get brought up.

Past a point most people are in it for the gameplay and if they get bored using one weapon type or because they rolled one thing I don’t see how that’s a problem.

Again games exist where you can just make a build and if you really want to stick to it you can. However the distinction isn’t locking weapons behind an unreasonable and petty grind but having enough build variety and game complexity to warrant switching things up out of interest.

Like if the point of the system was player retention it fell flat on its face for that.

If it was to cover up the lack of content with RNG it really didn’t do a great job with that either.

For player engagement it’s debatable but for every person defending the system it seems at least 3 or 4 others cite it as something they hate but put up with or on the extreme end is actively stoping them from playing.

I would personally like a system where I can just freely swap stuff out but I have a strong feeling I’m not going to get that because reasons short of there being a major 180 from FS a year and a few content drops later.

Having enough luck to overcome bad RNG does not a good system make.

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Yep. It’s the bulls horn issue.

You either take horn 1, and “perfect” weapons don’t matter nor shouldn’t be chased, in which case fat shark should just increase their drop rates, because there’s literally 0 reason to make them difficult to obtain.

Or you take horn 2, and they do matter and people have every reason to be mad about the time needed to get them, due to mechanical advantages. At worst they have psychological purposes, and we should not be supporting predatory practices to “retain” people. If they didn’t matter, then there would be no mass psychological appeal.

Either way you get stabbed, and there’s no alternative. They can’t both matter for player retention and not matter so as to not irrationally chase them simultaneously.

“Stop chasing 380 items it’s irrational!”

Let’s give everyone 380 weapons more easily.

“No don’t do that! They’re the whole reason people play the game!”

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Then its back to bad design.

  • Have official dedicated servers.
  • Have Unofficial dedicated servers that people can run themselves or pay to be hosted,
  • Have Local P2P Server Options.

L4D2 had this solved over 10 years ago. it allowed for all 3 options and a VS mode.

Just think about it for a second, a game released in 2009 fixed all of these issues and more but a game dev company with over 10 years in the industry, known to be specialised in creating PvE games haven’t learnt how to, or have chosen not to implement basic features that made past games a hit.

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That was just the source engine, the gold standard back then, from a time when dedicated servers were very rare and expensive to host and LAN parties still existed. The problem was people just pirating and cracking the games, so the industry moved away from that model.

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Again, are you even reading your own posts? Are your posts:
A. “Yeah you’re right perfect weapons don’t matter much and so the actual level of qualty you need is fairly easily attained,” OR
B. Do your posts constantly worry about how hard it would be to get the absolute perfect combination of everything?

That’s why it’s frankly silly of you to accuse me of lacking reading comprehension, because I’m literally reacting to exactly what you’re saying. (And what you’re saying definitely doesn’t imply you understand the actual range to perfect weapons – meaning the range where you have all the best breakpoints isn’t that perfect combination you’re talking about in your posts.)

I’m not telling you that.

You’re telling us that by being unable to name ONE combination!

In short:

  • you’re worried about something,
  • but you haven’t presented evidence it’s even possible,
  • and what you’d need (to show it’s a problem worth solving) to have is evidence it’s common!

Until you have that, you don’t have a problem people should care about.

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I would actually play the game of there was a modded realm. Vs not at all.

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You have failed to prove the understanding necessary to warrant further discussion varlet, disengaging interaction.

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You sure about that? Because given your eternal inability to name even ONE concrete example of your hypothetical problem, it seems like I’m the one with understanding here and you’re the one complaining about nothing.

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I don’t consider myself as a pgm or a very skilled gamer, but I have A LOT of very good weapons with very good blessings n perks (I do think like you, that if you buy/consecrate smartly you can have a good pool of weapons). Yet, none of them are 380 nor t4 blessings. And I clear damnation. Like, without any huuuge trouble…

My opinion is that you need 70%+ on the right stats, t3+ perks on what you need and t3+ on quite good blessing (at least 1)

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The game has breakpoints, like all the games before it. That you pretend that it doesn’t, means you are arguing in bad faith, and you are in fact arguing just to argue. Asking him to prove there are breakpoints, or else his argument falls apart, is akin to asking someone to prove the sky is blue. You are the one refusing facts. Therefore, like in almost all discussions you take part in, you provide absolutely nothing of value.

Since you want proof, allow me to open your mind:

Further, if you think it’s irrational for people to want max stat items in a game, then I am very glad you don’t have anything to do with 99% of the games I enjoy. Even more, for a lot of people it’s not even about max weapons - it’s about getting equipment that is ‘finished’ and completely done, so they will never again have to interact with the abysmal itemization and casino systems in this game.

Try to let that sink in. Engaging with any of the systems in this game is actively unfun and detrimental to the game experience for a large number of people. That getting ‘finished’ equipment is looking like thousands of hours across the characters is driving a lot of this displeasure - because any interaction at all with the systems in the game sucks all the fun out of the game, and knowing they will have to continue engaging with the systems over, and over, and over again in order to have finished end-game equipment is just making people not want to play at all.

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Ok? What I see in that quote is the following:

  • RNG shop has bad blessings (yes, pretty sure that is the case since release/Dec 1st)
  • main purpose is the grey items & claim that 360+ modifiers drop more often (can’t agree about the high stat modifiers part)
  • that something takes very little time using the shop-checker app (indicating use of said app, not sure why else you’d mention it)

I don’t see any other mention of the app or of you describing how it’s not needed. (maybe we’re reading different posts?)

I gave very specific examples to avoid misunderstandings. All examples used a specific weapon type. If you change the criteria to “any decent random weapon” I’ll agree with you that very little time needs to be spent. That was no the premise though.

That’s great for you. Have you at any time been looking for a specific perk of a specific tier when doing so? I know I have spent longer than 5 minutes re-rolling a perk and there are plenty of testimonies on this very forum of people who have had really bad re-rolling experiences.

If you’re nit-picking on that specific number you’re definitely missing the point. Use 2,5 minutes in the same example and this will still be true:

Not really, but you’d have to read (and understand) both posts.

You might want to take a look in the mirror. I’ve agreed that it can take 10 minutes to get the weapon you want (for trying out a new build, specifically, no mention of god rolled weapons from me). Those 10 minutes are the floor (minimum). The ceiling (maximum) is the obscene amount of time it can take. I have chosen to not look at only the best case scenario, but on both the best and the worst case, and that’s what my examples are meant to represent. You seem to be set on looking at the best case scenario, and if you’re not open to look past that, it’s not surprising that you don’t seem to understand the content of my posts.

As mentioned a few times previously. I don’t actively play the game because I lack the motivation to engage with this system. Also, for the record, I wouldn’t say I hate anything. :black_heart: :brown_heart: :white_heart:

As a final point, feel free to do so. :point_down: You seem to cherry-pick your discussion points anyway (both with me and others) and at least it would spare me from your silly insults and seemingly lackluster comprehension skills.

This is a flashback from the VT2 calculator. It’s giving me a headache just looking at it :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thats crazy lucky! I have yet to get a tier 4 blessing through consecration. Only sire melks. (ive done quite a few weapons since the update)

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For you to argue against that straw man is bad faith.

For you to fail to provide evidence of ONE single breakpoint that requires a perfect 380 item continues to prove my point.

Maybe you should play around with that breakpoint calculator more to discover just how rare it is that moving the damage bar from 70% to 80% changes any meaningful breakpoints for a weapon. You should spend a lot of time doing that, looking for ONE breakpoint where it matters, to understand just how bad the position you’re arguing for is.

Right, exactly. If my explanation of how to make a good item talked about the importance of that shop and its RNG constantly, that would mean it’s needed!

The fact that I barely mention it and consider it very optional nowadays is why it’s not “needed”. It’s an optional extra source of good greys if you happen to check, but no matter what item you’re looking for you can immediately buy 5-15 of it to get good 360+ versions of it and turn those into excellent items without ever checking the shop.

It’s what I did with Maul+Shield recently to finally get a good version of one (and while it’s been great – way better than my other Maul+Shields – it definitely confirmed what I’ve always said about the weapon type that it still needs a bit of a buff, just like Krourks do).

Yeah “no more than 5 mins” is usually doing just that. (Though occasionally it’s a “I’d accept T4 Flak or T4 Unyielding” sort of deal.)

Friend, you’re the one

  • bloating numbers by pretending they’re double the actual values, and
  • ignoring the numbers associated with getting all the resources so that you can craft things

That’s a dishonest argument. You’re ignoring reality (the time spent in missions) and inventing a delusion (doubling the time not spent in missions).

All I’m asking is that your criticism not be pure nonsense. Could you maybe just stick to the facts? If that’s outrageous to you, then your criticism should just be dismissed as pure fantasy.